Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Author Topic: Found a scan doubler ( who would like one ) ?  (Read 17650 times)

Description:

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Damion

Re: Found a scan doubler ( who would like one ) ?
« Reply #59 from previous page: October 30, 2007, 03:16:44 PM »
Quote

If you can't notice the difference of AGA running through a 24bit scandoubler and a 16bit go to an eye specialist because you have some kind of visual problem


No need to be an ass, at least I had the cojones to admit my mistake, instead of just disappearing. Once again, I've never stated AGA didn't have a 24-bit palette (or that a 0-255 red, green, or blue gradient couldn't be smooth utilizing 256 colors from said 24-bit palette). Also, never did I state that there isn't a difference betweeen 16 and 24-bit color. (Duh.) I simply didn't realize that a 16-bit scandoubler would actually castrate the palette, as opposed to only effecting the AMOUNT of displayable colors, and have since been corrected. It's a pretty honest mistake, considering how AGA is a bit (pardon the pun) different in this regard.

In addition, I still think HAM gradients look fugly (smooth or otherwise). They don't look good to me, as the colors appear over-saturated and blurry. This is simply a matter of personal opinion.
 
Clear as mud? :roll:
 

Offline alexh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Apr 2005
  • Posts: 3645
    • Show only replies by alexh
    • http://thalion.atari.org
Re: Found a scan doubler ( who would like one ) ?
« Reply #60 on: October 30, 2007, 03:31:46 PM »
Quote

hardlink wrote:
So for 16-bit quality, you think the AL250a would work? Does it need external RAM?

Yes, no.
 

Offline alexh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Apr 2005
  • Posts: 3645
    • Show only replies by alexh
    • http://thalion.atari.org
Re: Found a scan doubler ( who would like one ) ?
« Reply #61 on: October 30, 2007, 03:40:51 PM »
Quote

adonay wrote:
would a CM-345S scan with 24 bit?

I would think so, but it would be best to test empirically. They use the SmartASIC STV108 Scandoubler which can do 24-bit input.

http://www.amiga.org/gallery/index.php?n=1176=38
 

Offline hardlink

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Sep 2006
  • Posts: 586
    • Show only replies by hardlink
Re: Found a scan doubler ( who would like one ) ?
« Reply #62 on: October 30, 2007, 06:11:50 PM »
Quote

alexh wrote:
Quote

hardlink wrote:
So for 16-bit quality, you think the AL250a would work? Does it need external RAM?

Yes, no.


Does anyone here have or can they get the full datasheet for the AL250a? Only the 'flyer' seems to be availabe. I am trying to determine if the are enough signals on the A1200 ADV101KP30 video dac, for which I have the full datasheet, to drive the blasted AL250 or the newer(?) AL251.

If this is possible, a very economical and low noise, but limited color resolution, internal A1200 SD/FF should be possible.
 

Offline alexh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Apr 2005
  • Posts: 3645
    • Show only replies by alexh
    • http://thalion.atari.org
Re: Found a scan doubler ( who would like one ) ?
« Reply #63 on: October 30, 2007, 06:22:47 PM »
Quote

hardlink wrote:
Does anyone here have or can they get the full datasheet for the AL250a?

http://www.ortodoxism.ro/datasheets/Averlogic/mXvqxzx.pdf

Quote
I am trying to determine if the are enough signals on the A1200 ADV101KP30 video dac, for which I have the full datasheet, to drive the blasted AL250 or the newer(?) AL251.

There are not enough signals on the video DAC. There are no SYNC signals. Also it is not the source of the signals.

That is why the DCE chips clip to the LISA (R[7:3], G[7:2], B[7:3]) and the ALICE (HSYNC, VSYNC) chips.

The AL251 is not newer, just different. Damn upgrade fever!!

Quote
If this is possible, a very economical and low noise, but limited color resolution, internal A1200 SD/FF should be possible.

It is possible, but no one with the technical capabilities to make it a reality is interested. It requires an investment of time and money that no one has. Add to that the loads of generic 24-bit RGB external scandoublers at £75-£95 ($150-$190), it's not a good place to be profit wise just now.
 

Offline Speelgoedmannetje

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2002
  • Posts: 9656
    • Show only replies by Speelgoedmannetje
Re: Found a scan doubler ( who would like one ) ?
« Reply #64 on: October 30, 2007, 07:05:22 PM »
Here's a list of (possible) vendors of the cm-345s

Not cheap though, here it's being sold at 189 euros...
Though to me it can be worthwhile, since I have quite a vintage computer collection.
And the canary said: \'chirp\'
 

Offline kvasir

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Join Date: Aug 2004
  • Posts: 249
    • Show only replies by kvasir
    • http://watertonian.freeiz.com/1200brag/index.html
Re: Found a scan doubler ( who would like one ) ?
« Reply #65 on: October 30, 2007, 07:18:27 PM »
oh, hell yeah! Though I've tried to e-mail this guy a few months ago, to no avail. Must have gotten the address wrong. Is there some sort of mailing list you could run on this, or just tick on the notify in this thread? (I've already smoked 2 1950 monitors, am now using my brothers old 1942 which is making a scary capacitor whine and jumps around a bit, making me think its on its last legs, and really DON'T want to dig up an old tv set, requiring me to not use my 800x600 resolution screen, and hope it can stabilize PAL games and play them missing the bottom of the screen)
--
Amiga 1200T 68060 50MHZ 192MB Fast
 40GB IDE, 100MB Zip, CD/RW, DVD/Rom
 Mediator+ 4MBSVGA, Soundblaster, 100mbps Ethernet
 Subway USB+ endless list of gadgets :-D
My full specs
 

Offline Plaz

Re: Found a scan doubler ( who would like one ) ?
« Reply #66 on: April 21, 2008, 03:16:38 PM »
@alexh

Quote
Add to that the loads of generic 24-bit RGB external scandoublers at £75-£95


Do you think there is a 24bit version in that bunch that might be a canidate to get ported for Amiga? Maybe even just a datasheet a chip used in a 24-bit RGB? Can't seem to find  much on the STV108.

Plaz

 

Offline CLS2086

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Oct 2003
  • Posts: 1456
    • Show only replies by CLS2086
Re: Found a scan doubler ( who would like one ) ?
« Reply #67 on: April 21, 2008, 08:09:24 PM »
Hi kvasir,
take time to change capacitors (even the non polarised one) and diodes. I won't cost more than 25$ and it's easy to do.
For the 1950, check the equivalent with HR Diemens or other flyback makers.
Keep the Faith !
VG 5000/A1000/500/500+/600/2000/CDTV/1200PPC-GREX/1200PPC -ATEO-BV/4060D/CD32/Aone/Peg 1/Peg2 G4/ various funny machines too  :-) http://www.mo5.com/collection/index.php?pseudo=CLS2086
I also repair drives of our old beloved Amiga
 

Offline kvasir

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Join Date: Aug 2004
  • Posts: 249
    • Show only replies by kvasir
    • http://watertonian.freeiz.com/1200brag/index.html
Re: Found a scan doubler ( who would like one ) ?
« Reply #68 on: April 22, 2008, 05:09:29 AM »
I'll have to ask my brother if I can do that. Meanwhile, I've gotten ahold of a second A1200, that has some sort of scandoubler in it, so I'm using a Mitsubishi Diamond Pro 91TXM 20" VGA monitor. Though I had to trade my super72 800x600 res for a PAL hires laced 724x566 screen. (Even with MonED and MIprefs I couldn't stabalize an image that size) Would still like to have an external scandoubler, though. This way I could still record AVI/MPG clips to VHS, and still use my nice 20" monitor doing it! (My older 1200 is set up with the old 1942, using an NTSC res, pretty much for recording animations to tape.)
--
Amiga 1200T 68060 50MHZ 192MB Fast
 40GB IDE, 100MB Zip, CD/RW, DVD/Rom
 Mediator+ 4MBSVGA, Soundblaster, 100mbps Ethernet
 Subway USB+ endless list of gadgets :-D
My full specs
 

Offline kvasir

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Join Date: Aug 2004
  • Posts: 249
    • Show only replies by kvasir
    • http://watertonian.freeiz.com/1200brag/index.html
Re: Found a scan doubler ( who would like one ) ?
« Reply #69 on: September 21, 2008, 07:03:06 AM »
OK, I've finally gotten ahold of one of these things, arrived earlier this week and I've been playing with it a bit. It does get the scanrate to where my Mitsubishi Diamond Pro 91TXM monitor can display Amiga output, however there is a green tint too it. I believe this was touched on earlier in the thread, and I wanted to get other ppls opinion of whats going on with it. Apparently, the 16 bit input expected from the chip is split up between 3 channels as Red: 5, Green: 6, Blue: 5, Where AGA exports 24 bit signal as Red: 8, Green: 8, Blue: 8. I would think this would cause a drop in green tint, and overpowering of blue and red, but I guess my thinking was backwards here. The gentleman making these things seems eager to get an Amiga compatable version working, and was thinking of somehow dropping the extra green bit before it reaches the chip. (I think, I'm not too good at this level of digital electronics) My solution was to solder together 2 vga connectors with a resistor on the green line to bring it down to the same level as the red and blue, and being too lazy to work out the math, was actually going to solder 3 different variable resistors on the RGB lines and adjust the VGA display until it matched what was on my TV through the composite port, then measure the resistance accross the green pot and E-mail him the value for future units. I've uploaded 2 pictures here, of a test pattern (apparently from sweden, just something I grabbed off google images by typing "color test pattern" :-D ) and will edit this post or just add another one when/if they're approved. 1 is of the NTSC tv displaing the test image, and the other is the monitor displaying the same image. Any corrections in what I think is going on here would be appreciated, as I'm so good at hardware engineering that I currently hold a telemarketing job trying to sell cable telephone to people that don't want it. :-D
--
Amiga 1200T 68060 50MHZ 192MB Fast
 40GB IDE, 100MB Zip, CD/RW, DVD/Rom
 Mediator+ 4MBSVGA, Soundblaster, 100mbps Ethernet
 Subway USB+ endless list of gadgets :-D
My full specs
 

Offline barney

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: May 2008
  • Posts: 555
    • Show only replies by barney
Re: Found a scan doubler ( who would like one ) ?
« Reply #70 on: September 21, 2008, 08:28:24 AM »
I would love to order one of these.  I think I emailed this guy several months ago about buying one, but I havn't heard much since then.  Is he still making them?  Is there a huge waiting list? I guess I sort of just moved on.  If anybody knows anything, please let me know.  Thanks.

Barney
 

Offline kvasir

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Join Date: Aug 2004
  • Posts: 249
    • Show only replies by kvasir
    • http://watertonian.freeiz.com/1200brag/index.html
Re: Found a scan doubler ( who would like one ) ?
« Reply #71 on: September 22, 2008, 03:37:51 AM »
OK, looks like the 2 pics I uploaded got approved.
This is the image on my TV set from the comp. output

And this is the green tinted scandoubled output on my VGA monitor.

I should mention while the "waiting list" on these seems pretty reasonable, he's reluctant to sell to any A1200/ A600 owners until everything gets hammered out. (I plan on testing this out on an old A1000 I have access to @ the end of the month)
--
Amiga 1200T 68060 50MHZ 192MB Fast
 40GB IDE, 100MB Zip, CD/RW, DVD/Rom
 Mediator+ 4MBSVGA, Soundblaster, 100mbps Ethernet
 Subway USB+ endless list of gadgets :-D
My full specs
 

Offline weirdami

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jan 2003
  • Posts: 3776
    • Show only replies by weirdami
    • Http://Bindingpolymer.com
Re: Found a scan doubler ( who would like one ) ?
« Reply #72 on: September 22, 2008, 08:24:55 AM »
Well if the originally suggested price range on this remains the same then Jens will have some serious competition if the guy finally gets it working.
----
Binding Polymer: Keeping you together since 1892.
 

Offline kvasir

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Join Date: Aug 2004
  • Posts: 249
    • Show only replies by kvasir
    • http://watertonian.freeiz.com/1200brag/index.html
Re: Found a scan doubler ( who would like one ) ?
« Reply #73 on: September 23, 2008, 05:18:13 PM »
Still swapping E-mails with this guy, he's currently looking for an Amiga 1200, and was wondering if anybody in SW Virginia would be willing to sell or at least let him use one to get this thing working?
--
Amiga 1200T 68060 50MHZ 192MB Fast
 40GB IDE, 100MB Zip, CD/RW, DVD/Rom
 Mediator+ 4MBSVGA, Soundblaster, 100mbps Ethernet
 Subway USB+ endless list of gadgets :-D
My full specs
 

Offline tone007

Re: Found a scan doubler ( who would like one ) ?
« Reply #74 on: September 23, 2008, 05:28:37 PM »
I'm in Northern VA, but wouldn't mind lending my 1200 in exchange for a sweet deal on a completed unit ;)
3 Commodore file cabinets, 2 Commodore USB turntables, 1 AmigaWorld beer mug
Alienware M14x i7 laptop running AmigaForever