XP Pro .......S...L...O...W...!

[daverobev]

Ok, in no particular order:

WindowsXP is pretty much Windows200 v 1.1. Those saying W2k is simpler... I'd say it's some nice tweaks, but you can set it all back to "classic" should you wish. I wouldn't install W2k over WXP given the choice, but the differences are fairly minimal.

I find Mac OS 10 more sluggish than Windows XP. I have used 10.1, 10.2, 10.3, and now have 10.4 on a MacBook.

If you have more than 26 running processes on a desktop with no programs open (ie after boot), you can lose some stuff. Pointless tray icons, services, whatever. If you have a laptop, it's probably 30, with the power management stuff the manufacturers provide.

"Nobody buys rubbish products" good god did you ever use windows 98?!? Now THAT was awful.

Linux is complicated, flaky and so disjointed in some things - truly not ready for normal users. Hello, changing screen resolutions when you plug in a new monitor? Awful! Sure, if you know what you're looking for. Dependency hell, one-thing-breaks=another. OS X is unix done right (except compiled for size, not speed, and too much UI over responsiveness - but then I want a computer to respond as I click, not after a small delay).

Windows XP on, oh let's say a 1.5GHz desktop with 512Mb or more and a half decent 7200 rpm hard drive shouldn't be sluggish. It isn't sluggish. If it is, then something else is the cause. Clean out, defrag, uninstall, disable.

Oh don't get me wrong, I go through anti MS phases, but the fact is they are so big it's like being anti-government - you can dislike some bits, but most people are probably at least trying to do a decent job. A micro-civilisation. Not "evil" just "human"... demonising them doesn't help.

[Shamus_]

daverobev wrote:
Ok, in no particular order:

WindowsXP is pretty much Windows200 v 1.1. Those saying W2k is simpler... I'd say it's some nice tweaks, but you can set it all back to "classic" should you wish.

W2k is simpler. It's also faster and easier (IMO) to maintain. The classic view thingy doesn't even enter into it. Sure, there's some bells and whistles missing like XP themes and DHT for torrents if you're into that type of thing  but I prefer my machines to run lean rather than adorned with pretty pictures anyway. W2k has a smaller footprint and therefore leaner on system resources than XP  ever was. W2k flies on a gig of RAM. Each to their own....

I find Mac OS 10 more sluggish than Windows XP. I have used 10.1, 10.2, 10.3, and now have 10.4 on a MacBook.

Never used a Mac. Ever. :-)

"Nobody buys rubbish products" good god did you ever use windows 98?!? Now THAT was awful.

WinME was worse. I re-installed it so often I could remember the key for it. A truly horrible OS.

Linux is complicated, flaky and so disjointed in some things - truly not ready for normal users. Hello, changing screen resolutions when you plug in a new monitor? Awful! Sure, if you know what you're looking for. Dependency hell, one-thing-breaks=another. OS X is unix done right (except compiled for size, not speed, and too much UI over responsiveness - but then I want a computer to respond as I click, not after a small delay).

Agreed. Linux is better than it used to be but the dependencies gave me a bad case of the craps. Particularly when the one dependency an app needed would be either corrupt or unavailable and the whole thing would die a slow, lingering death. I really liked Lindows (Linspire?) alot. Very easy to set up SMB shares with it and installed in under 10 minutes. A great OS.

[jj]

I would say XP Pro is the best OS Microsoft have relleased to date.   Not to say that it does not have some issues, but there can never be such a thing as a perfect product to everybody.

[LoadWB]

Shamus & stopthegop:

Random thoughts on dealing with different levels of Windows users.  If you provide service to Windows environments, you'll get it.  (I think.)  If you don't get what I said, then it's safe to ignore me; in-depth explanation won't help.

[amigadave]

Latest update:

Returned from working on the house I am trying to sell (bad time for selling) and after following Don's advice and installing several programs to search for viruses and other problems and to defragment the HD, I ran a "Thorough Scan" from the recently installed Avast anti-virus program (dumped AVG) and the bad news is I have three system files that are infected:

kernel32.dll
winsock.dll
wsock.dll

I don't know exactly what this means, but I assume it means my computer is wide open to an attacking hacker.  I have the files quarantined and have tried to contact Don to ask how to re-install the infected files clean, but he is apparently not online at the moment.  I guess I will have to go to the MS support site for help, unless one of you can walk me through it.

I HATE WINDOWS! :madashell:

[LoadWB]

Infected with what?

[amigadave]

Avast doesn't say, or I am not seeing it, but my guess is a Trojan.

What an idiot I am!  Avast only copied those files to a safe place IN CASE they are infected at a later date.  No files show as infected at this time from the four different virus scans I have used.  I guess I will try TinyXP next to see if I can get the original performance back.

GOD I HATE WINDOWS!!!

 :madashell:  :madashell:  :madashell:

And I have to get up at 3:30am tomorrow!

I won't be back on the Internet for a couple of days I think.

[amigaksi]

>Avast doesn't say, or I am not seeing it, but my guess is a >Trojan.

Trojans and spyware will slow down the machine.  I had one spyware that was trying to dial out of my internal modem and was causing delays because it was timing out (there was no dial tone).  Anti-spyware software is not based on any science of 100% removing your spyware but they are guaranteed to hog up your resources and slow down your system as much as some of the spyware itself.  I just keep deleting the cookies and that helps a bit.  You may want to manually go through command prompt and delete all the files in the Cookies subdirectory (if you have such a subdirectory).  Use DEL *.*.

You could set up a network where you have a fresh install of WinXP on one machine networked to another machine that you use for internet.

I noticed my spyware/trojan crap in my machine while running the floppy simulator.  If you click on "Check Cable" in the MPDOS PRO software and your LPT rate keeps giving you inconsistent answers, you know something in the background is screwing around with your system.

I am referring to MPDOS Pro described here (in case you did not know):
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320185491302

I would not say that Windows XP is bad since you can write software that is immune to spyware/trojan crap like MPDOS Pro is and still use the various advantages of Windows XP.
(Stop background tasks while your task runs is one example.)

[gdanko]

kernel32.dll
winsock.dll
wsock.dll

You are screwed. Your kernel is infected.

I HATE WINDOWS! :madashell:

Stop using it then.

[Damion]

gdanko wrote:

kernel32.dll
winsock.dll
wsock.dll

You are screwed. Your kernel is infected.

Not necessarily, usually these things just "pose" as system files in different drawers. I've seen some pretty messed up XP installs, there's yet to be one that couldn't be 100% fixed with about an hours worth of work. There's really no such thing as being "screwed" IMO (unless your hardware is broke). Once you get a method down, XP is pretty easy to keep running well.

Hang in there amigadave... you'll get it sorted eventually, and the experience will only make you a better user.

[BlackMonk]

Win98SE was probably the best iteration of the Win9x series.  Win98, WinME, not so good.  But Win98SE?  Gold.

Win2K I also prefer over XP.  Win2K = NT5, WinXP = NT5.1, Vista = NT6.  Yeah, that's the actual version numbers, open a command prompt and type "ver" to see for yourself.

The problem with Win2K, and the reason I recently rebuilt my system from Win2K Server to WinXP Pro, is that Win2K is end of life from Microsoft.  Sure, you still get some critical updates from time to time, but GAMES and DRIVERS do not support Win2K anymore.

I ran into this when I discovered that the new ATI video cards did not have drivers that would work on Win2K.  I contacted ATI about this and was told that since Win2K was EOL, no drivers would ever be made for that platform for their new 2x00 series cards.  A quick check:

http://ati.amd.com/support/driver.html

Look at the models available when you select Win2K and then Radeon.  Then look how many are available when you select WinXP and then Radeon.

Newer games also don't work, as mentioned.  I believe Enemy Territory: QuakeWars would not install for me.  And Unreal Tournament 3.  And I think Stranglehold and a few others, maybe World in Conflict

Win2K is great if you want to browse the web, play older games, and use productivity software--except for Adobe CS2 Suite or later, as that requires WinXP.  And I guess the latest Office 2007 doesn't work with 2K, either:

http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/word/HA101668651033.aspx

Yeah, you will get significant slowdowns from installing anti-virus programs.  I used to not care, either.  But then again, I found that I wanted to browse to more sites than www.aol.com and run more programs than what I'd find on download.com.  

On my old Win98SE system, when I thought I didn't need anti-virus, I had 80k+ copies of Nimda and Sircam.  I only decided to look when I noticed all these random .eml files littering my drive and my system starting to have problems.  

Ok, but that was a while ago.  I just reinstalled a fresh WinXP machine, behind NAT, and installed all XP patches.  Then I started browsing the web without anti-virus.  Took about a day until I was hosed.  I used Kaspersky online scanner and it told me to just reformat and reinstall.  I was infected so bad that whatever I had would BLOCK any attempt to install Spybot, an anti-malware program.  Literally it would force a shutdown of the installer.  Hardcore.

--------------------

So what's my point here?  I love Win2K, but if someone is going to recommend it at this point, realize that it is end of life, no new drivers will likely be made for it for newer hardware, no new office productivity apps from larger companies will support it, and no new top-shelf games will support it.  If I weren't a gamer, I'd still be on Win2K.  But... I can't be, anymore.

If you're going to pretend that you don't need an anti-virus scanner and that hiding behind NAT will keep you safe, you need to realize that not everyone will have your same luck.  You CAN get away with this, but you probably aren't visiting "interesting" parts of the web nor are you running "interesting" programs as well.  If you don't, then yes, you'll probably be relatively safe.  If you want to get your hands into everything you can, like me, then you'll want an anti-virus scanner going.  Sure, it will slow you down.  But far better than having to reformat and reinstall everything.

Everyone has an opinion about what you do and do not need to do with Windows.  You will have less pain if you over-protect than if you under-protect and get jacked up.  I used to believe that I didn't need anti-virus.  But I'm no longer that ignorant.  

[amigadave]

@gdanko,

Read my post more closely and you will see that I was mistaken and that Avast only copied and put those critical files in a safe "System Files" folder inside what they call the "Virus Chest" along with other folders called "Infected Files", "User Files" and "All Chest Files".

I initially thought that since the files were inside the "Virus Chest" that they were infected.  I was looking through the "All Chest Files" option into the "Virus Chest" before I read the documentation to find out that Avast copies the files for protection in case they need to be re-installed to replace infected files.

I am finally starting to relax and think that my computer is no longer infected after running half a dozen programs to clean and protect it.  Now I have Sunbelt Personal Firewall (full paid version) and Avast Anti-Virus installed and running and they are reported to not slow down XP too much, if at all.

My XP performance is better than it was but I am still not satisfied that it is as good as it was on the day I first received it, or as fast as a 2.4gHz Core2Duo w/7200rpm cached HDs and 2GB RAM computer should perform, so I am still looking to improve it and find an easy way to maintain that increased performance without a ton of user intervention.  Also I refuse to fix it by purchasing any more Microsoft crappy programs.  If MS has a way to fix it, it should have been provided free inside the XP OS!

[gdanko]

@amigadave

You keep fussing how much you hate Windows. Stop using it!

[amigadave]

@gdanko,

You write me the few applications I need to use that are currently (and probably forever) Windows ONLY programs and I will gladly stop using Windows of any kind or flavor FOREVER.

Having used the Amiga first I know what should have been our computing past, present and future.  Having used my PowerBook and now MacBook and MacOS, I know that present day computing does not have to be as bad as WindowsXP or Vista currently are.  

I say again, if I could figure out how some people are able to run MacOS on their non-Mac PCs, I would install Tiger, or Leopard on my Dell XPS 700 and run the couple of programs that I can't do without (and are Windows only) through Parallels, or VMware and never regret or miss using anything else on WindowsOS.  I am actually hoping that MacOS continues to increase is pitifully small market share so that more developers will write programs for it, or at least the ones I need.

[gdanko]

You write me the few applications I need to use that are currently (and probably forever) Windows ONLY programs and I will gladly stop using Windows of any kind or flavor FOREVER.

Nope. I have found non-Windows equivalents for everything I need. Well, I think I did the smart thing by not getting sucked in to the Windows black hole in the first place. Your mistake was allowing yourself to become dependent on MS.

Having used the Amiga first I know what should have been our computing past, present and future.  Having used my PowerBook and now MacBook and MacOS, I know that present day computing does not have to be as bad as WindowsXP or Vista currently are.

This is true. I more or less went from Commodore to MacOS way back in 92 or so. I reviled Windows because MS has been upto the same shady nonsense since the beginning. Everyone laughed at me now but now those same people are kicking themselves and cursing Windows 15 years later. If only people had listened to me in 1992.

I say again, if I could figure out how some people are able to run MacOS on their non-Mac PCs, I would install Tiger, or Leopard on my Dell XPS 700 and run the couple of programs that I can't do without (and are Windows only) through Parallels, or VMware and never regret or miss using anything else on WindowsOS.

Again, your first mistake is to have gotten caught up in the black hole. By the way, OS X on a Dell is flaky as crap. Your best bet is so wipe Windows for good and use Ubuntu or Fedora Core 8.

I am actually hoping that MacOS continues to increase is pitifully small market share so that more developers will write programs for it, or at least the ones I need.

What programs are you referring to? There is no application worth suffering through Windows for!

[kd7ota]

I didn't take the time to read the entire thread of what exactly is making the system slow, but here are my two cents.

My friend has a intel pentium 4 3.2ghz cpu that I believe was either socket LGA774 or 775, i forget since im not a big intel fan.  ;-)

But put it this way.... It crawled like crazy, loading applications took forever, and even at times, it just froze out of nowhere.  Now, my other Shuttle PC which has an older socket pentium 4 @ 2.4ghz, and that Shuttle is many times faster in 3d games, running applications, etc...

Turned out that the Motherboard is flaky.....  The SATA controller is what made the entire system crawl.  Even if you attempt to install a fresh copy of XP, no go.

I would have to go with getting a different board  :-D

just get a cheap one from newegg.com or even ebay.  Heck, I run a Biostar Socket AM2 cpu motherboard and this thing is hauling @$$. :-D

And yes, i do run Windows XP PRO.  :-)