MINIMIG question: Why not go the whole hog???

[mingle]

Hi,

I've been watching (and occasionally commenting on) the Minimig thread(s) with great interest - it's a fantastic idea and a great achievement.

I think that inviting comments and suggestions from the prospective market (ie: us!) is a double-edged sword: It allows us to create a wish-list of stuff to be included, but it also opens a can of worms, distracting the developers and causing minor disputes about the relative advantages of USB vs SATA, etc...

But today a thought stuck me:

It seems that the skills and capabilities are already here, so why not take it to a new level and build a genuine hi-spec classic Amiga replacement? Would it be a step too far to make a much faster ('060?) system with SATA, USB, PCI, etc? (I thinking of the EFIKA as an exmaple)

I for one would be willing to pay for such a machine...

The minimig as it stands (correct me if I'm wrong!) will be pretty much an A500-spec implementation in an FGPA. I think a lot of us here probably still have A500s, or run them in UAE?

I for one think it'd be much more fun to have a blazing-fast  classic system to tinker with...

This is just me thinking out loud, but hopefully I can get people thinking?

Cheers,

Mike.

[Homer]

Hi mingle, but what software would you run on it ? Dennis has recreated an A500 that can run all the software the original could (well nearly). Our market is too small for anybody to build what you ask, unless it can also be used for other "industrial" purposes.
I think AROS will be the closest thing for you ??
Hmm....   Doughnuts  :lol:

[amigadave]

Mike, I put a similar suggestion and questions in the Minimig Enhancement thread.  If it is possible without it taking 3 years to rewrite the code and design a new PCB w/an 060 or faster CPU, I think it will happen.

My hopes are that since it is Open Source GPL that a few hardware engineers and programmers will join together and work on such a project.  It only makes sense if it will be something better in hardware than what is already available via software only with WinUAE and EUAE.

It would be great if such a project could actually revive the Amiga community which has been shrinking drastically the last several years because of all the problems and delays with other vaporware projects and the delays with AmigaOS 4.0 and hardware to run it.

As evidenced by all the threads and interest in Minimig, it is the biggest thing to happen for Amiga enthusiasts in the past ........ I don't know, 10 years or more?

[dammy]

Why bother?  There are good alternatives to it already.  Minus the court crippled OS4, mind you.  If you want "modern" hardware that has some interest, I'd say either EFIKA or ASUS EEE-PC.  Of course, good old desktops out there are an option as well.

Dammy

[amigadave]

@Homer,  Call me stubborn and unrealistic, but I would prefer faster hardware that runs all the Classic Amiga software natively, and see developers return that can create modern software for your "Industrial" uses, like web browsing, email, business applications, online banking, networking, etc.

It will probably never happen, but that is my dream of an Amiga future, and I am willing to spend my extra time and money to make some of it happen.  I will probably still be writing code for the AmigaOS in another 20 years if I can keep some hardware going that will run it.

The AmigaOS is the most elegant and easy to use system I have ever seen and used.  QNX was an interesting alternative that I would have liked to see the next AmigaOS blended with, but someone screwed that up and it didn't happen.

[amigadave]

dammy wrote:
Why bother?  There are good alternatives to it already.  Minus the court crippled OS4, mind you.  If you want "modern" hardware that has some interest, I'd say either EFIKA or ASUS EEE-PC.  Of course, good old desktops out there are an option as well.

Dammy

Might be good for EUAE and Amiga emulation with the small disk storage space (4gb or 8gb), but I don't see how it could be useful if Windows were loaded on it.

[dammy]

Might be good for EUAE and Amiga emulation with the small disk storage space (4gb or 8gb), but I don't see how it could be useful if Windows were loaded on it.

I was referring to having Amiga like OS running on them (EFIKA or x86/x86_64) as an alternative to what he was requesting minimig to do.

Dammy

[jahc]

It's being worked on as we speak.

http://amigaworld.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=3362
http://amigaworld.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=3684

They're aiming to fully replicate the Commodore Amigas. AGA, 060, etc.

This is by Jens from Individual Computers, the same company who did the Catweasels etc.

[coldfish]

I agree with the OP, while I'm happy to see anything new happening in the Amiga scene, ultimately Minimig is an A500 (in FPGA), which is cool and interesting and all, but it's still just an A500 spec' system.

At best, Minimig would be a short-term novelty/hobby project for someone like myself, it isnt going to see frequent use after its built and set up.

I'm happy for those folks who still have time for their classic hardware and still enjoy it enough to have it set up ready for daily use.  That feeling passed on a long time ago for me.  In my opinion, Amiga is now not much more than an interesting chapter in the history of computer tech', all of the original hardware & software engineers are happy to leave it at that, why cant everyone else?

[TheMagicM]

i think its a neat idea.  go ahead and design it, assemble it and let us know when you're done.  its as simple as that, right?

[pixie]

The way I see it MiniMig is the ultimate Amiga arcade, as such it should allow blazing fast game loading, access to the best pad controllers and, in the meanwhile having a network world as given, it might as well take handle it transparently.

To me, these new virtual 'custom chips' are of more importance then  68k processor itself.

[Hattig]

I think you could have a minimig that utilises both an FPGA with integrated PowerPC core (some Spartans have two!), and another FPGA for the "AGA++" type chipset. A 68k could be programmed onto the former FPGA for backwards compatibility. You'd run a fast bus between the two FPGAs.

Hopefully that would be able to run AmigaOS4 on the PowerPC part, whilst still having native capabilities of the classic Amiga.

Of course it should be done one step at a time, and if you want an uber-amiga then I don't think that any evolution of minimig will be the best way to achieve it.

[MikeC]

I've been lurking around here for a long time, too.

Needless to say, the Minimig project is an amazing accomplishment. Great work, Dennis!

Back in the day, I owned just about every Amiga model ever made from the A1000 right to the A4000. I was also a Commodore-Amiga VAR dealer and a member of CATS.

Today, I really enjoy running WinUAE off my HP notebook. I was able to take the contents off my old Amiga 4000 hard drive and dump it into my notebook and pick up right where I left off. When I launch WinUAE in full screen 1280 x 800 mode, it's like my notebook is that portable Amiga I've always wanted...faster, more ram, bigger hard drive, etc.


Also, I have a friend who stripped out his Amiga 4000 and put in a PC motherboard, power supply, 1.44 MB FDD, CD-ROM, etc. He installed Linux and configured it all so that it boots right into UAE. So, you turn on the computer and a minute later, you have a workbench screen. For all intensive purposes, it is an Amiga. :-D  You would know the difference unless you opened it up. Actually, you would because it's certainly faster than any production or enhanced Amiga and it's tricked out with tons of RAM, CD-ROM, ethernet, etc.

So, as impressive as Minimig is, I doubt I'd be purchasing one, enhanced or otherwise because it's just not going to do anything I can't do emulated. If fact, it's going to be a lot less functional.

If Minimig (enhanced or otherwise) was something mass produced with ASICs instead of FPGAs and sold for under $100, it's certainly something to consider. Otherwise, it'll be a very, very limited niche product.

I'm sure even Dennis realizes this. For a lot of people here, Minimig is a fun project and great learning experience but to think it's going to be something more is wishful thinking.

[pixie]

How many tvs in each house? If we have a MiniMig with TV out and having it wireless it could be a cool setup for kids... kids which nowadays play phone games which are most of the time far worst then those made for Amiga.

[freqmax]

@Hattig:
FPGAs with integrated PowerPC core are very expensive. Besides existing baseline Xilinx Spartan-3 are cheap and can execute most tasks needed by an Amiga. No PowerPC in Spartan-3 asfaik.

Cheapest Virtex-4 is 210 USD, no Virtex-4 FX (PowerPC) found.
Virtex-II Pro might be the answer. It costs 126 USD. But it's in 456-FBGA package (and all Virtex-II are in BGA pkg):
http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=122-1451-ND