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Author Topic: Aminet Copyright Upload Dilemma  (Read 11262 times)

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Offline koaftder

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Re: Aminet Copyright Upload Dilemma
« Reply #59 from previous page: September 05, 2007, 01:42:56 PM »
Good grief...

You don't make your sources available to the public if you don't intend for people to modify and share. If you release your source to public don't boo hoo when Bob does something with it you don't like. Any normal, rational human being that writes software knows that you can't control what people do with the source and the author would be wasting his time trying to enforce a wierd-o license against people doing what they naturally do with source thats freely available, which is tweak and share.

Most of the points brought up by various people in here are certainly valid, but they mostly apply to commercial settings, and with commercial products. The contractual and licensing issues that have been put forth for discussion certainly do make sense in commercial settings. In these instances, the code does come with specific and very detailed circumstances that absolutely should be followed, but lets face it, this is in relation to source that isn't public released and thus it doesn't really relate to this thread now does it?

 

Offline Dietmar

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Re: Aminet Copyright Upload Dilemma
« Reply #60 on: September 05, 2007, 02:17:32 PM »
Quote
don't make your sources available to the public if you don't intend for people to modify and share

If developers provide source code for your viewing pleasure without handing over the entire rights, that's their decision, not yours to make. Who are you to tell them how to release? Read the license, will you. That's not very much to ask for. Developers having reservations about what they permit and spelling that out in a license have to be respected.
 

Offline pixie

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Re: Aminet Copyright Upload Dilemma
« Reply #61 on: September 05, 2007, 03:18:12 PM »
Will you tell me how to use? It's my decision to take not theirs...


pixie- writing from a paradise called Portugal
 

Offline Dietmar

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Re: Aminet Copyright Upload Dilemma
« Reply #62 on: September 05, 2007, 04:02:16 PM »
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It's my decision to take not theirs...

Well, it just isn't (you may stomp on the floor now but that probably won't change anything, but give it a try anyway ;)
 

Offline itix

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Re: Aminet Copyright Upload Dilemma
« Reply #63 on: September 05, 2007, 04:45:20 PM »
Quote

You don't make your sources available to the public if you don't intend for people to modify and share.


Just like dont park your car to public places if you dont intend for people to modify and share ;-)

(fixed broken quote)
My Amigas: A500, Mac Mini and PowerBook
 

Offline koaftder

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Re: Aminet Copyright Upload Dilemma
« Reply #64 on: September 05, 2007, 04:59:39 PM »
Quote

itix wrote:
[quuote]
You don't make your sources available to the public if you don't intend for people to modify and share.


Just like dont park your car to public places if you dont intend for people to modify and share ;-)
[/quote]

There is a difference between parking your car in a public place, and parking your car in a public place with the windows rolled down and the keys in the ignition with a note in the front seat that reads, "You may sit in this seat but you may not drive this car to any location other than Mc Donalds. You are not allowed to have a friend sit in the passenger seat. You may purchase food from Mc Donalds, but you may not use this vehicle to purchase food for a friend. You may not allow food purchased while sitting in this vehicle that you have not finished to be eaten by third parties.".
 

Offline pixie

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Re: Aminet Copyright Upload Dilemma
« Reply #65 on: September 05, 2007, 05:18:46 PM »
Quote

Dietmar wrote:
Quote
It's my decision to take not theirs...

Well, it just isn't (you may stomp on the floor now but that probably won't change anything, but give it a try anyway ;)


Well, it's their burden... it's as if one cross the road without even looking, you might be right, but it's YOU who take the hit, and there's not compensation who will take it from you.


pixie- writing from a paradise called Portugal
 

Offline Dietmar

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Re: Aminet Copyright Upload Dilemma
« Reply #66 on: September 05, 2007, 05:30:48 PM »
Quote
You may sit in this seat but you may not drive this car

Weird rules are an owner's privilege. Become an owener, become an anarchist or pursue an ideology that seeks to establish a classless, stateless social organization based on common ownership.
 

Offline Roj

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Re: Aminet Copyright Upload Dilemma
« Reply #67 on: September 05, 2007, 05:52:40 PM »
If I read this right, Dietmar is expecting everyone to follow the rules. The rules are the rules and that's just the way it is. It's an admirable, if utopian viewpoint.

On the other hand, most everyone else understands that uploading source code, like leaving keys in the ignition with instructions on using your car, and expecting those instructions to be followed, is only going to lead to disappointment. That's reality. It's just the way people are.

Knowing that, accepting it, and being smart about what to expose to the public and what not to, are about all the owner of whatever property is being exposed to the public can do to avoid being disappointed.


Quote
Weird rules are an owner's privilege. Become an owener, become an anarchist or pursue an ideology that seeks to establish a classless, stateless social organization based on common ownership.


You called me naive, but truly it's naive to expect any instructions accompanying freely available source code to be adhered to by the general public.

I think Copyright infringement happened like five minutes after the invention of the first computer. The switch was flipped, and then somebody copied something they weren't supposed to. Seriously, my point is that Copyright infringement and the computer are so closely related that they pretty much go hand-in-hand. Whether anyone chooses to accept that or not doesn't matter. That's the reality of it.

Knowing that, and expecting the world to suddenly change because you want your intellectual property handled according to a set of instructions is just not having your feet grounded firmly in reality. I'm not saying it's right that it is that way. I'm just pointing out that it is that way, and it will be that way for years to come.


@Ed

If you weren't confused before, I bet you're confused after listening to us!  :lol:
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Offline Dietmar

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Re: Aminet Copyright Upload Dilemma
« Reply #68 on: September 05, 2007, 08:35:50 PM »
Quote
If I read this right, Dietmar is expecting everyone to follow the rules

Gosh, no. Like you, I expect that normal behaviour prevails and that software licenses are not read. Which is a shame if they are as funny as the two below. But let's draw a line between that and discussing The Rules.

--- cut

LICENSING AGREEMENT
-------------------
By breaking this seal, the user hereinafter agrees to abide by all the terms and conditions of the following agreement nobody ever reads, as well as the Geneva Convention and the UN Charter and the Secret Membership Oath of the Benevolent Protective Order of the Elks and other terms and conditions, real and imaginary, as the Software Company shall deem necessary and appropriate, including the right to come to the user's home and examine the user's hard drive, as well as [...]

(Dave Berry, home.xnet.com/~raven/Sysadmin/Barry.html)

Here is another good one:

Bloodthirsty License Agreement
------------------------------

This is where the bloodthirsty license agreement is supposed to go, explaining that Interactive Easyflow is a copyrighted package licensed for use by a single person, and sternly warning you not to pirate copies of it and explaining, in detail, the gory consequences [...]

(www.netfunny.com/rhf/jokes/88q2/29609.17.html)
 

Offline mdwh2

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Re: Aminet Copyright Upload Dilemma
« Reply #69 on: September 05, 2007, 10:53:03 PM »
Quote

You don't make your sources available to the public if you don't intend for people to modify and share. If you release your source to public don't boo hoo when Bob does something with it you don't like. Any normal, rational human being that writes software knows that you can't control what people do with the source and the author would be wasting his time trying to enforce a wierd-o license against people doing what they naturally do with source thats freely available, which is tweak and share.

Most of the points brought up by various people in here are certainly valid, but they mostly apply to commercial settings, and with commercial products.
So why is it mad if an individual does it, but fine for companies?

Do you apply the same principle for anything you find on the Internet, or only source code?

Can I ask what you mean by "wierd-o licence"?
 

Offline mdwh2

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Re: Aminet Copyright Upload Dilemma
« Reply #70 on: September 05, 2007, 10:54:32 PM »
Quote

pixie wrote:
Will you tell me how to use? It's my decision to take not theirs...
As I said: we're talking about distribution. I think you said you were talking about not-distributing. That's the difference. The latter is your decision, but the former isn't.
 

Offline mdwh2

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Re: Aminet Copyright Upload Dilemma
« Reply #71 on: September 05, 2007, 10:56:37 PM »
Quote

koaftder wrote:
There is a difference between parking your car in a public place, and parking your car in a public place with the windows rolled down and the keys in the ignition with a note in the front seat that reads, "You may sit in this seat but you may not drive this car to any location other than Mc Donalds. You are not allowed to have a friend sit in the passenger seat. You may purchase food from Mc Donalds, but you may not use this vehicle to purchase food for a friend. You may not allow food purchased while sitting in this vehicle that you have not finished to be eaten by third parties.".
But I'd say those things are comparable to a restrictive EULA, not distribution licences. I agree EULAs are silly and legally dubious, but distribution is covered by copyright law. Hence, it's more like driving a car into somewhere you aren't allowed to go without permission, i.e., trespass.
 

Offline EDanaIITopic starter

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Re: Aminet Copyright Upload Dilemma
« Reply #72 on: September 06, 2007, 08:38:32 PM »
@ Roj,
Quote
If you weren't confused before, I bet you're confused after listening to us!  :lol:


Confused? Nah... More like amused. There are two arguments going on in this thread, one of principle and the other of the practical. And while I'm all for being principled, there are times when it just doesn't make any sense. Is this one of those times. Don't know. Don't care. :-)

Ed.
Ed.