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Offline rdolores

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Re: Why do you stick with the Amiga?
« Reply #29 on: August 08, 2007, 02:43:04 PM »
I still use it for two main reasons: Nostalgia and Challenge.

Nostalgia, because the Amiga is the first computer I ever really got into, mainly for music composition and desktop publishing.

Challenge, because it is a lot of fun trying to get the system to do modern things it was never designed to do in the first place.

My main Amiga now is an Amithlon. With it I have connected it to the Internet and my home network. I also have set up a CD-burner on it as well as USB capability.

Using RDesktop, I can remote into my WinXP machine which I use as a pseudo-Bridgeboard to run FireFox and other modern apps which we don't have on the Amiga. I've also used TwinVNC to remote into an Ubuntu Linux box.

It's neat to have Amiga OS3.9 running on a 1280x1024 32-bit color screen, and it's blazingly fast. I also have ShapeShifter to run my old Mac programs (System 7.5).

It's also neat to play CD's and MP3's as well as my old Mod files.

For Deluxe Music, I still use my old classics. Nothing can emulate the warmth and accuracy of the original Paula chips.
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Offline vic20owner

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Re: Why do you stick with the Amiga?
« Reply #30 on: August 08, 2007, 02:51:50 PM »

I'm sort of with guru-666... I was never much of a gamer. I was always interested in graphics (lightwave), telecommunications (BBS's), the internet (before it was the web... just usenet and telnet/ftp/smtp).. also did a lot of hacking with my Amiga.

So here it is 200x and the Amiga doesn't do any of these things well anymore...  well unless I want to render low color images in low resolution.

The problem is, I am emotionally attached to the computer itself.  It's lines, the click the floppy makes, etc.  I love it... but once I turn it on I find I am very disappointed with the reality of it.  It's not very useful.

8 color workbench, flickering screen, slow screen updates, and nothing really practical to do with it except watch demos and play some games.  Browsing the web is too slow to be practical (even with an 030/50 and 64mb ram), and the text editors lack too many modern features to make them useful.

So it sits in it's original box shielded from the sun so it won't turn yellow.

In a sense, my C64 is more fun because I don't expect as much from it.

So I do love my Amiga... but what to do with it?

I was thinking that maybe I could install a ton of games with WHDLoad... I thought maybe it would help me make some good use of it.

Then I tried to configure WHDLoad.  What a pain... I haven't gotten around to trying again.

So I dunno... I am considering going back to emulators.  I haven't made up my mind yet.

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Offline stopthegop

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Re: Why do you stick with the Amiga?
« Reply #31 on: August 08, 2007, 04:01:48 PM »
Quote
I'm sort of with guru-666... I was never much of a gamer. I was always interested in graphics (lightwave), telecommunications (BBS's), the internet (before it was the web... just usenet and telnet/ftp/smtp).. also did a lot of hacking with my Amiga.

So here it is 200x and the Amiga doesn't do any of these things well anymore... well unless I want to render low color images in low resolution.

The problem is, I am emotionally attached to the computer itself. It's lines, the click the floppy makes, etc. I love it... but once I turn it on I find I am very disappointed with the reality of it. It's not very useful.

8 color workbench, flickering screen, slow screen updates, and nothing really practical to do with it except watch demos and play some games. Browsing the web is too slow to be practical (even with an 030/50 and 64mb ram), and the text editors lack too many modern features to make them useful.

So it sits in it's original box shielded from the sun so it won't turn yellow.

In a sense, my C64 is more fun because I don't expect as much from it.

So I do love my Amiga... but what to do with it?

I was thinking that maybe I could install a ton of games with WHDLoad... I thought maybe it would help me make some good use of it.

Then I tried to configure WHDLoad. What a pain... I haven't gotten around to trying again.

So I dunno... I am considering going back to emulators. I haven't made up my mind yet.


You have a point, but maybe consider upgrading it with a better accelerator and/or pci with a decent graphics adapter and USB.  Believe me, the difference is night and day.  A whole world of possibilities will emerge.  It will feel like a new computer, but it will still be the same Amiga you know and love.  Granted this is not cheap.  Its undeniable, too, that brand new PCs are a lot faster than Amigas.  But so what?  They may be faster, but they're not better.  The term "fast" as used in computers is subjective anyway..  

Last year's PCs are "fast", but this year they're "faster" (supposedly).  Does that all of a sudden make last year's PC no longer "fast" -- the mere existance of something "faster"?   Its classic group-think;  singularly dumb, yet perfect for a consumer driven economy.  
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Offline Wol

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Re: Why do you stick with the Amiga?
« Reply #32 on: August 08, 2007, 04:18:43 PM »


Because it's so reliable, does what it's told, and fast.

The safest filesystem I have found, ( almost impossible
to loose all data on a disk ). Most data can be recovered
easily from very damaged disks, which almost never happens
anyway.

Can invent any new screenmode at a whim, not just stuck
to whatever winblows gives you.

Multiple monitors and screens ... no problem..

Smooooooth true multitasking.

AND FUN.


WOL....
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Only after the last river has been poisoned,
Only after the last fish has been caught,
Only then will you find that money cannot be eaten.

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Offline mrad

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Re: Why do you stick with the Amiga?
« Reply #33 on: August 08, 2007, 05:00:04 PM »
I while ago, when I was wondering myself why I wanted to stick with my Amiga for so long, I formulated something of a grand-unified-theory-of-why-the-Amiga-is-so-great.  My theory has three branches: Hardware, software, and community.

The hardware was ahead of its time.  The custom chipset gave better graphics resolution, decent sound, and parallel processing, all at a decent price point.  PC hardware has improved since then, and Amiga hardware has aged, albeit gracefully: An A1200 is much more useful then a contemporary 486, no matter what OS you put on the latter.  I wouldn't say hardware is a compelling reason to stick with the Amiga anymore, but it is not so bad yet that it you can't use it at all.

The operating software is logically designed, and honest about what it is doing.  No other system, for example, will display a nice clicky GUI at the same time it shows you free memory (both chip & fast) at the top of the screen.  Easy for beginners but also useful for the experts, while helping the former progress in their knowledge to become the latter.  The "honesty" of the system software was a boon to video applications: want to write to chip RAM during the vertical blanking interval?  The OS gave you the hooks.  Want to re-define color zero for genlocking? Ever tried doing that with a PC VGA card?  Modern Linux comes close, but Linux carries a lot of legacy baggage and, because it runs on a mind-boggling range of hardware, abstracts the hardware too much to be truly Amigoid.

The Amiga community is co-operative.  The IFF format was introduced by EA, blessed by C=, and used universally.  If I downloaded some song for the Amiga, it just worked.  No format wars, no technically inferior formats foisted on us for marketing reasons (the one good thing that came from the non-existence of C= marketing).  Bitter infighting occurs, of course, but the differences seem to get aired out early and decisions made on technical merit.  The Linux community, by comparison, lacks a central arbitrator, so you get Gnome vs. KDE and the like.  The BSD community is a bit more centralized, and better in this respect, though BSD is more a server OS, not my idea of a desktop OS.  Microsoft, of course, is an *evil* arbitrator.  

That is a short version anyhow, the 10,000 foot view.  Previous posters have given examples that I think fall into these general categories.
 

Offline TheMagicM

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Re: Why do you stick with the Amiga?
« Reply #34 on: August 08, 2007, 05:36:45 PM »
I have almost all of mine in the garage boxed up except for a A500, A600HD and A3000D (which are fixing to be put away as soon as I get a chance).  

I always use EUAE since it has run just about every game that I have and on top of that my A3k's HD, A4K's HD was copied over to my linux box so now I can boot up to my A3k's or A4k's workbench and use all the software I have on there.

I use it because it reminds me of the good ol' days when computing was fun and the Amiga was on top.  Its mostly used for gaming.  I put away my other Amiga's because if one were to break I'd need to buy parts to fix it which ATM I'm not interested in doing.
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Offline persia

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Re: Why do you stick with the Amiga?
« Reply #35 on: August 08, 2007, 06:26:39 PM »
Nostalgia, it's been 10 years since I could do any serious work on an Amiga, but it's nice to kick back and play an old game or two after work.  Sort of remembering the optimism of youth I guess, when, for a brief moment, I had the best state of the art machine and thought I could do wonders.

Yeah, I can do things on the Mac that I can't even dream of on the Amiga, but the thrill isn't there for some reason...
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Offline guru-666

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Re: Why do you stick with the Amiga?
« Reply #36 on: August 08, 2007, 06:36:23 PM »
BTW, my Amiga's are very souped up... 060, even ppc, GFX cards  ect... not interested in PCI od USB, these add on cause most of the trouble.
Emulation works nice with imageFX, but generally it always has issues for me... IOW does not work crashes and so on.

When people say the Amiga is a simple machine that simply does what it's told, I wonder what the heck are these people doing? Talk about hard to expand, tricky settings and abnormal stuff that you just have to know!  Just read the forum and you will see all sorts of hardware and software issues that NOT easy to fix.

But just like vic20 I love them....even if they cost a fortune and don't do much of anything... it just getting harder to justify is all.
 

Offline vic20owner

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Re: Why do you stick with the Amiga?
« Reply #37 on: August 08, 2007, 07:11:04 PM »
Agreed... poor filesystem, lack of memory protection, no virtual memory, AmigaOS is not worthy of any awards for stability...

But even after all that it's more stable than Windows ME for example, but not XP.  XP offer memory protection which in most cases prevents an app from taking down the entire OS.

This is something that never existed for the Amiga... it's really easy to guru an Amiga.

BUT... remember, at the time most people were using MS-DOS 6.0 and Windows 3.1.  

Compared MSDOS and Windows 3.1, the Amiga was incredible.

I'll probably end up keeping my Amiga... why.. I dunno... maybe to save it from the junk yard.



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Offline leirbag28

Re: Why do you stick with the Amiga?
« Reply #38 on: August 08, 2007, 07:46:40 PM »
@vic20owner

Quote:
------------------------------------------------------------------
8 color workbench, flickering screen, slow screen updates, and nothing really practical to do with it except watch demos and play some games. Browsing the web is too slow to be practical (even with an 030/50 and 64mb ram), and the text editors lack too many modern features to make them useful.

So it sits in it's original box shielded from the sun so it won't turn yellow.

In a sense, my C64 is more fun because I don't expect as much from it.

So I do love my Amiga... but what to do with it?
----------------------------------------------------------------------

 ooooh do I HIGHLY disagree with you on those statements.  I have never used a GFX card on any of my Amigas..........I use Native AGA on my A1200 and its quite lovely and useful...........seriously more useful than OSX or Windows for me.........I have configured it to be more useful with simply Magic Menu and ToolsDaemon. I can load programs faster than I can on a Mac or PC. its usability is amazing.

and as what to do with your Amiga?  How about Gelocking? ChromaKeying? Video Titling? as far as I have seen, it is still way easier to do this on an Amiga. The quality of the ChromaKeying is much better than some I have seen with WIndowsMedia Maker for instance.
it is really fun to use the ChromaKey PLUS with S-Video and MiniDV footage. The quality is DVD or better. and to top that Karaoke is very popular these days.............with the ChromaKey I can put poeple on a Blue Screen looking silly singing to their favorite songs with an animated background or DigitalJuice.com animations...........which I convert to the Amiga to use with SCALA, ELan Performer or DCTV. Transfering the clips is a breeze with the JUICER and my Subway USB card to read thumb drives.

I also play 4 player games on a FLicker Free Projector I have wich gives me crisp RGB clarity through the S-Video port and de interlaces the image.

I record Speaches on DSS8+ that are really really long and can be PodCast............You can put some fun videos you made with your Amiga on YouTube...............I do lots more that I cant rememember off the top of my head.  But Amigas are still FUN!

CD32 is actually the best Amiga ever made by Commodore!...
 

Offline murple

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Re: Why do you stick with the Amiga?
« Reply #39 on: August 08, 2007, 09:03:49 PM »
Quote
Last year's PCs are "fast", but this year they're "faster" (supposedly).  Does that all of a sudden make last year's PC no longer "fast" -- the mere existance of something "faster"?   Its classic group-think;  singularly dumb, yet perfect for a consumer driven economy.  


By that reasoning, you are dumb if you drive to your job on the other side of town because cars are "fast" but before cars, people thought running was "fast"... well, I hope you have good shoes buddy!
 

Offline stopthegop

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Re: Why do you stick with the Amiga?
« Reply #40 on: August 08, 2007, 09:52:50 PM »
Quote
By that reasoning, you are dumb if you


....Make a bogus analogy?

Quote
drive to your job on the other side of town because cars are "fast" but before cars, people thought running was "fast"...


"Car" is a noun, "Running" is a verb.  I compared two (similar) nouns.  Besides, people didn't declare walking obsolete when cars became ubiquitous.  
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Offline eidofoor

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Re: Why do you stick with the Amiga?
« Reply #41 on: August 08, 2007, 10:09:40 PM »
@stopthegop

Thank you!

I was already writing a way to elaborate post just to make that point! Luckily I noticed your post before I could finish mine!

Bad analogies really make me cringe these days.
 

Offline uncharted

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Re: Why do you stick with the Amiga?
« Reply #42 on: August 09, 2007, 02:48:45 PM »
I guess for me it's an even split between misty-eyed nostalgia and the love of tinkering with things.

To me, it's bit like a duck made of cheese*






*That analogy was placed for the benefit of eidofoor. :-D
 

Offline Roj

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Re: Why do you stick with the Amiga?
« Reply #43 on: August 09, 2007, 03:45:07 PM »
Quote
I'd personally be interested in specifics if you're willing to provide them.


I put this together a long time ago, and some of it may no longer be valid, and the rest will be picked apart for inaccuracy, but for what it's worth:




Modern Operating Systems


If the hard drive requires reformatting, some registered programs must be re-registered.

More effort has gone into hiding data and information than has gone into making it easy to work with.

Tired of the response, "Well what else is there?" when talking to the average Joe about alternative platforms and operating systems.

Modern software designers have never heard of buttons called Use and Test, and have no concept of what the word Cancel actually means.

The desktop is at the highest position in the device hierarchy, yet it's really a subdirectory on the boot drive. The hierarchy should have the drives at the top and work its way inward, not take some arbitrary starting point and pretend it's the top.

Modern OS users seem oblivious of the difference between Screens and Windows. Here's a hint: if the entity being referred to can be moved or resized, then it isn't a Screen (unless it can only be dragged upward and downward, and then it's not Windows.

Ever intend to drag the contents of a window which may be positioned close to the window's edge, and instead get the pointer too close to the border, drag it and inadvertently resize the window? Wouldn't be so bad if you could cancel it before letting go of the mouse button.

Most, if not all Windows-only users who know what wildcards are think that *.* and ? are perfectly adequate wildcards.

Microsoft tells us where we are to save all of our data. What ever would we do without them helping us with such difficult decisions? Heaven forbid we try to save our stuff in a place that differs from the norm.

Modern operating systems are programmed to be task-oriented rather than user-oriented, giving more importance to what the computer wants to do and less to what the user wants to do. Operating systems of the past had the opposite feeling. Regardless of how "slow" the hardware, if the system became unresponsive it was usually because of something which had gone wrong rather than simply being standard operation.

If the application is busy, accessing menus is impossible.

Let's put the close gadget right next to the "minimize/maximize" gadgets. Who cares if the user clicks the wrong one and loses all their work. We'll just have extra "are you sure" requesters to ensure the user feels both protected and annoyed.

Why are the scroll bar arrows separated by the scroll bar? Isn't the idea of scroll arrows to keep from having to move the mouse while scrolling?

When the system is busy, the entire GUI appears frozen. Often there is no indication that this is normal. The system simply fails to respond.

Progress bars that use 10 - 20 pixel wide segments have been widely adopted by many applications in modern operating systems, foregoing a more comfortable and informative pixel-wide segment.

How can a computer crash so hard that it no longer accepts input from the keyboard?

There's usually no clean way to cancel an errant mouse click. If the user intends to drag-and-drop something, clicks and starts to drag it, then realizes before dropping that it shouldn't be dropped, most  operating systems won't let the user cancel it easily without the risk of dropping it in a potentially dangerous place.

Buy it, use it, throw it away.

Modern operating systems don't support two-image icons.

Just try renaming a "folder" or a file while it's being accessed in any capacity by any other application.

Students in today's "I.T." studies are being taught to underwrite software, leave behind bugs and use poor implementation methods in the name of job security. Students I've spoken to will attest to this new ideology.

Windows don't conform to a user-defined default position and instead either recall the last used size and position or default to what the programmers feel is appropriate for all users. How about allowing the user to tell the operating system when to save window position coordinates rather than saving them every time the thing is moved?

Scroll gadgets snap to their original position if the mouse is moved an abstract distance from them.

PCs are 70s technology. The Y2K problem is clear evidence that the original designers of the PC never imagined that it would still be used beyond the 20th Century.

Complete incompatibility with other platforms. Initially Microsoft will announce and release a new format and open the source to developers. Then after it's been widely adopted, Microsoft changes the format and withholds
the sources.

If DOS is really gone from Windows, why can't I put backslashes and colons in file names?

More often than not, the Microsoft Wizard is less helpful than just allowing the user to configure something manually. Getting Windows to realize this and allow manual configuration can be more difficult than actually getting the thing configured.

The Start Menu actually reads source files linked by shortcuts before the user clicks on anything. Normally not a big deal, but when the source file is located on a network or a drive that spins down, the whole start menu freezes while the drive spins up or the network connection is made. It can be quite lengthy if the connection times out.

It's become common practice not to include any form of documentation within installation packages. In many cases, the only way to figure out what software is or does is to install it. Then, if it isn't what's wanted or expected, uninstall it, which usually leaves bits of the program behind.

Any clicks on a specific letter of text existing in a text gadget is ignored in favor of Windows' desire to highlight the entire line, requiring a second click to put the cursor where the user originally intended on the first click.

Instead of naming system files something useful, they're given cryptic 8.3 file names in combinations of numbers and letters even though the OS has supported long file names for over a decade.
I sold my Amiga for a small fortune, but a part of my soul went with it.
 

Offline B00tDisk

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Re: Why do you stick with the Amiga?
« Reply #44 from previous page: August 09, 2007, 05:28:24 PM »
Roj, I'm not going to line-item pick that apart because it is wholly and entirely wrong.  Everything.  There is no one point of wrongness that needs to be brought to attention over the other(s).

I'd recommend you educate yourself about the various OSs before railing about them but...
Back away from the EU-SSR!