Transparency

[motorollin]

This is a follow on from my AmiNetRadio Skins thread. I am wondering why it seems to be impossible for applications to support transparency on Workbench 3.x? We have had transparent icons for years, and PowerIcons/AfA-OS enhances this with multiple alpha channels. So why can't VisualPrefs, AmiDock and others support transparency?

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moto

[Crumb]

@motorollin:

it probably would require updated intuition/graphics libraries. AROS already does that so maybe AfA (AROS for AmigaOS) could do it. You could try to recompile "kitty" demo from AROS. It shows the AROS mascot in a transparent window that allows you to see through the empty parts. I mean, it shows the image without borders as a non-rectangular window.

Ask Bernd Roesch (the AfA author) about it, I guess that it shouldn't be too difficult to add.

Running AmiNetRadio with a non square skin would be cool :-)

[Oli_hd]

Didnt magic workbenches do it with the right mouse button menu?
Not exactly the same but it shows it can be done.

[motorollin]

I had a feeling AfA-OS would be able to do it. It would be really great if AROS's skinning engine could be backported to AmigaOS as a replacement to VisualPrefs.

Where would I get the source for the Kitty demo? Is there any instruction on how to compile it? I have not experience of compiling software on an Amiga.

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moto

[motorollin]

@Oli
I think MagicMenu did transparency. Also the borders round icons have been transparent since before AfA-OS, and PowerIcons doesn't use AfA-OS and that supports transparency. So although AfA-OS can probably do it, I don't think it is the only way.

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moto

[motorollin]

I have contacted Bernd Roesch to see if there is any way that AfA can be used to enable transparency in other applications. I'll summarise any reply I get here.

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moto

[cv643d]

I dont think the transparency in Magic menu is real transparency. IIRC it copies what is behind of the menu and puts it in as the background of Magic meny. So if anything behind Magic menu updates in realtime the "transparent" image will be static.

[motorollin]

I see. So it's fake transparency :-) I assume AfA uses real transparency. I hope we will start to see 68k Amiga apps which require AfA, and which will take advantage of AfA's advanced features.

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moto

[Karlos]

Are any of the transparency effects genuine?

As far as I can see, for transparency to work properly, layers.library would have to make sure occluded parts of windows were still drawn and graphics.library would have to support alpha blending for rendering calls. For all this to be quick, ideally you'd need hardware rendering too, since reading back from video ram (ready for software rendering) is like walking in quickset cement on most amiga graphic cards.

[motorollin]

Who cares if it's real or simulated, as long as it works and is fast?

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moto

[weirdami]

I think there was "transparency" since the first A1000, only nobody used it. It was more like genlock or chromakay type deal. I remember reading about it being demonstrated at some place like Comdex or something when A1000 was still in wire wraps. You were supposed to be able to see through the current screen down to the one under it I think.

[cv643d]

The best use of transparancy of windows I have ever found is when I run MSN Live at work. I can set the transparancy on any window so I set it to 5% visible for MSN. So when my boss comes in he can not see the MSN window because it is so blended into the background.

Other than that use transparant windows are just a pain to use IMHO. Messes up your head when you can see through windows.

[itix]

What kind of transparency you mean and where? There is no support for transparency in layers.library and thus it is not possible have windows with transparency unless you hack it into programs. Icons are rendered by programs and there it is easier.

[itix]

I doubt AfA supports "real" transparency (translucency) since updating contents behind translucent layer is great pain without HW acceleration and support from the system. AfA extends CGX with WritePixelArrayAlpha() function which makes it easier to draw images with alpha channel, though.

In menus not having real translucency is not great deal anyway (to most users).

[quenthal]

How versatile are Feelin's window decorations? Can't remember now, but I think they had BeOS like window decorations (I could be wrong on this), which would indicate that it could make non-rectangle windows?

However, I'm not sure what kind of transparency is meant here - partial transparency which for example Magic Menu is imitating, or just non-rectangle windows?