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Author Topic: Hyperion takes bat, swings for McBill's head!  (Read 11041 times)

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Offline gazgod

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Re: Hyperion takes bat, swings for McBill's head!
« Reply #59 from previous page: June 28, 2007, 11:59:52 PM »
All this debating and endlessly gonig over the facts as each person sees them is pointless. The a.inc fanboys will keep saying a.inc is gonna win and the hyperion fans will do the same. When it comes down to it the judge and/or jury will decide.

One thing you can guarentee is the amiga community is gonna lose.

Me I'll just sit on the sidelines, play with my pegs and aros, and snigger to myself at people who keep saying the same point of view over and over again.

Can we just move on to something more constructive!!! PLEASE!


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Offline Tigger

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Re: Hyperion takes bat, swings for McBill's head!
« Reply #60 on: June 29, 2007, 12:06:45 AM »
Quote

gazgod wrote:

Can we just move on to something more constructive!!! PLEASE!



If you dont like a thread, dont read it or dont post on it, all the posts here are on topic except yours.  Makes you think.
    -Tig
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Offline Tigger

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Re: Hyperion takes bat, swings for McBill's head!
« Reply #61 on: June 29, 2007, 12:16:41 AM »
Quote

JJ wrote:
Tigger is continually bigging up AINC side of things.  He seems to have something personal against hyperion, becuase nobody with a brain could defend AINC as much otherwise


First of all JJ, I'm the guy the wrote the big article (and timeline) that went into the entire "probably illegal" transfer of assets by AI to KMOS.  I'm the one who pointed out all the lawsuits AI lost (Bolten, Matt, Fedex, etc)  I dont like McEwen very much and as most know, Fleecy tries to keep a country or two between him and me, it keeps his crooked ass teeth in his mouth.  HOWEVER, that doesnt mean that Hyperion has a case here.   Its hilarious that everyone thinks that Bernd (Amithlon) and I are shilling for AI at the moment, when neither of us can stand them and know from personal experience that they are crooks, its just they actually have a case, like they didnt before, and legally they are much more likely to win then Hyperion.  As I said about 6 weeks ago, I'm not a Spurs fan, but I think they are going to win the NBA playoffs (they did).  I'm not an AI fan either, that doesnt mean they arent going to win this lawsuit, and the sooner people realize that AI winning is probably the only chance for the OS at this point the better.  I'm sure at the end of this when AI wins, we'll have a bunch more leaving the community because HypeOS is the real OS and they arent interested in whatever AI supplies despite the fact it will be very close to what shipped for the A1.  We've seen some of that already.
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Offline jj

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Re: Hyperion takes bat, swings for McBill's head!
« Reply #62 on: June 29, 2007, 12:24:57 AM »
@ tigger

fair enough.  Sorry jumped to conclusions.  Please accept my apologies.

Have a pint on me  :pint:
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Offline redrumloaTopic starter

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Re: Hyperion takes bat, swings for McBill's head!
« Reply #63 on: June 29, 2007, 12:46:52 AM »
Quote

Tigger wrote:
If you dont like a thread, dont read it or dont post on it, all the posts here are on topic except yours.  Makes you think.
    -Tig


Right.
 
There aren't any fans of either company left here any more, just a bizare fascination.
Someone has to state the obvious and that someone is me!
 

Offline Methuselas

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Re: Hyperion takes bat, swings for McBill's head!
« Reply #64 on: June 29, 2007, 05:41:34 AM »
Quote

redrumloa wrote:

Right.
 
There aren't any fans of either company left here any more, just a bizare fascination.


Pssh.

All of this was done, "so the world may know". TM

*snickers*

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\'Evil will always triumph because good is dumb.\' - Dark Helmet :roflmao:

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Offline pixie

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Re: Hyperion takes bat, swings for McBill's head!
« Reply #65 on: June 29, 2007, 09:18:30 AM »
@Tiger
I think most of your arguments are broken by the (fraudulent) way that Amiga Inc done things...


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Offline lempkee

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Re: Hyperion takes bat, swings for McBill's head!
« Reply #66 on: June 29, 2007, 10:23:58 AM »
quite hillarious that some people even engage in theese lawsuits things when they actually have no interests in the outcome at all as they "left" the scene ages ago.

All i can say is, no matter what happens (who wins) we as amigans will loose on it.
Whats up with all the hate!
 

Offline dammy

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Re: Hyperion takes bat, swings for McBill's head!
« Reply #67 on: June 29, 2007, 10:39:35 AM »
Quote
I think most of your arguments are broken by the (fraudulent) way that Amiga Inc done things...


Why don't you go point by point with Tigger on where he is wrong?

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Offline Dandy

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Re: Hyperion takes bat, swings for McBill's head!
« Reply #68 on: June 29, 2007, 11:16:40 AM »
Quote

TjLaZer wrote:

It's funny how everyone is so anti piracy on here with regards to sending Kickstart ROMs, Workbench disks and similar things, ...



Yeah - who should hinder someone pirating anything labeled "Amiga", if "AInc (Delaware)" really gets sentenced
to drop the name "Amiga" from their company name, public sponsorships and so on?

If they really should have no rights to use the Amiga name, and really had no rights to Amiga OS 3.1 to 3.9; and AInc (Washington ) no longer exists - who holds the rights then?
Who would have the right to sue someone pirating Amiga IP then?

Quote

TjLaZer wrote:

Amiga, Inc is obviously still in business and ... I see it going in their favor.  Good thing this is happening in a US court.



If this bunch of betr - errmmm - those people, who took my money and failed more than five years to give me anything in return up to now really should win this case, then I'd say this would shade a very bad light on that US court/US law and make foreign customers of US companies think twice before they go into business with them...
All the best,

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Offline huronking

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Re: Hyperion takes bat, swings for McBill's head!
« Reply #69 on: June 29, 2007, 01:04:09 PM »
Quote

dammy wrote:


They should have cashed the second $25K and called it a day.

Dammy


And spent the money hiring Van Halen to play McBill's birthday.  :-D  :-D  :-D
 

Offline pappavis

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Re: Hyperion takes bat, swings for McBill's head!
« Reply #70 on: June 29, 2007, 02:10:49 PM »
In the present day of 20-jun-2007 the amiga doesnt matter. Period.  No matter how good or new features there will/are in OS4.0 the times have changed. One will need a HUGE incredible marketing budget to viably put AMiGA back on the scene.  It wont happen.
My memory recalls an guru and beloved famous Amigan at the time, and amiga inc employee, having a conversation with some other dude.  It was waaaaay back at in Des-2000 at the World of Amiga in Koln, Germany..  I overheard him saying something to some other guy (both wearing amiga t-shirts) that the "fools can forget about this platform, it's dead. Start using windows, hahahahahahaaaa!".  Thats when i handed hom back my Amiga/TAO SDK CD and said: "Good luck amiga".  He looked at me, puzzled..

All of the inner fight have killed any potential future for Amiga.  IF anyone who is not gonna or wanna use Windoze then the next best is an Apple, or a linux machine running Ubuntu Linux.
From a pure consumer standpoint there is NO reason whatsoever for me to waste money on a dead platform plagued by inner fights, bankruptcys and what-not.  Things to consider:
* On what type of hardware can OS4.0 run?
* Does it use a Intel platform?
* When is it available?
* Can i run open office on it, or is Amiga too a platform only for coders..?

My ole' A1200 has been gathering dust more than 8 years up in the attic.  Love WindozeXP or hate it, it pays my Bills.

The amiga lives on as part of my teenage sentiments.
met vriendelijke groet,
pappavis

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Offline jj

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Re: Hyperion takes bat, swings for McBill's head!
« Reply #71 on: June 29, 2007, 02:26:15 PM »
I think you are missing the point.  I would say 90% of people here accepted a long time ago that Amiga is dead and will alwyas be a hobby platform to us.  Most of us will hust enjoy it for what it is.
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Offline MskoDestny

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Re: Hyperion takes bat, swings for McBill's head!
« Reply #72 on: June 29, 2007, 04:04:13 PM »
I managed to read through all of the court documents yesterday (I had only read a couple previously)

A few points:

As far as payment, evidence has been presenting proving a transfer of $20K from Itec to Hyperion and $2,250 from Tachyon. Evidence has also been presented that McEwen attempted to wire another $2,500 to Hyperion, though so far no documents have been presented that prove that the wire actually went through. These payments total $24,750, though Hyperion claims to have mistakenly sent an invoice to Itec for $22,500 for the Itec and Tachyon payments (or for the $2,250 payment, I don't remember which). Amiga Delaware has also claimed that they made two additional payments for OS4 in the neighborhood of 7K and 8K respectively, but haven't provided any documentation to support that claim as of yet. I believe that Hyperion has claimed that payments from KMOS thus far have been for other contracts (like the development for the Arctic reference platform) and not for OS 4.

There's a dispute in the interpretation of the contract here as well. There is a statement that essentially says that payments need to first be applied to outstanding debts. Hyperion argues that even if Itec did successfully send them a total of $25K (including the Tachyon and McEwen payments) that it first needs to be applied to an oustanding Bill for other work Hyperion did for Amiga Washington and that they didn't pay enough as a result. Amiga Delaware claims that it doesn't matter what they were paying Hyperion for as long as they pay them $25K then the buy-in/buy-back clause is triggered.

The validity of the Itec to KMOS transfer is important to this case in that if Itec just sold KMOS the OS and not the rights to the contract KMOS/Amiga Delaware has no standing to sue Hyperion over the OS (though the trademark issue still stands). Itec could certainly sue Hyperion in this case of course. Amiga Delaware doesn't seem to be arguing that the purchase was made in this way though. As far as I can gather they are arguing that they bought the rights to the contract itself and thus the validity of the transfer is important (though again if the transfer to Itec was valid, Itec could still go after Hyperion).

On the insolvency question, it's important to look at the judgement denying the preliminary injunction. In his decision, the judge basically said that the contract didn't clearly define what was meant by insolvency and that Hyperion's view that Amiga Wa was insolvent back in 2002 could be correct. You can't just look at it from a Title 11 perspective until it goes to court and its decided that the insolvency clause actually means Title 11 bankruptcy and not some lower standard.

The completion question is an interesting one. The contract never actually says what it means for OS 4.0 to be complete. Hyperion claims that the December 04 release (and perhaps even the release prior) implements all the required and important features and most of the optional features listed in Annex I and therefore that release should mark the completion. Amiga Delaware says that was beta quality code and that Hyperion never notified them that they considered OS 4.0 done. Hyperion counters that a certain communication they sent (one of the many documents submitted to the court) was sufficient notice, though after reading it I can't say it really makes much of a clear statement that OS 4.0 is done. I found it rather amusing that Hyperion is using a review by Ars Technica as a piece of evidence.

In the end, a lot of this wouldn't be an issue if the contract wasn't so crappy. A lot of the terms used aren't properly defined leaving too much room for interpretation once disputes arise (insolvency and completion are just two of many examples). Neither party included enough language to protect their interests in case things didn't go according to plan. Hyperion clearly planned to finance most of their development work through sales of OS 4.0 with the $25K payment more of a token offering, but they seem to have failed to consider what would happen if the hardware situation fell through and they had no one to sell the OS to. Amiga didn't give itself much protection from Hyperion taking too long. The contract gives Hyperion a deadline, but only requires that they use "best efforts" to meet it.

Anyway, Amiga Delaware is far from having an open and shut case, but you don't have to trust my analysis of it. Just read the judge's decision in denying the injunction. One of the requirements for a preliminary injunction is a strong likelihood of success by the plaintiff and the judge himself said that wasn't the case. Of course, this isn't the same thing as saying Hyperion is in the clear either. Currently, Hyperion has done a much better job supplying documentation to support their claims than Amiga Delaware has, but that could change and if it does Hyperion's potential arguments get cut down quite a bit (though they could still try to win in it through one of the loosely worded areas of the contract).

What happens next will probably largely depend on how much money both parties have available for going to court. Amiga Inc. supposedly has a bunch of cash right now, but it's unclear how much of that is from actual profit and how much of it is investor money. If most of its the latter, they may be under a lot of pressure from their backers to settle. Investors tend to want to use their money to be making more money after all, not squander it on drawn out court cases. Likelihood of winning the battle will also come in to play certainly. Amiga Delaware may not have had the time to get all their documentation together or it's possible that they were too incompetent to keep proper documentation in the first place (which wouldn't be surprising given the people involved).

Of course, a settlement would be rather boring for us. A court case would almost certainly dig up some more juicy dirt on the companies involved. A court case might also have the nice side effect of putting these two companies out of business so that everybody who hasn't done so will just move on.
 

Offline redrumloaTopic starter

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Re: Hyperion takes bat, swings for McBill's head!
« Reply #73 on: June 29, 2007, 04:55:56 PM »
@MskoDestny

That's a pretty goood summary IMO. That's pretty much it in a nutshell.
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Offline dammy

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Re: Hyperion takes bat, swings for McBill's head!
« Reply #74 on: June 29, 2007, 06:59:00 PM »
Which PDF had the signed contract between Hyperion and AI WA for the additional work Hyperion said it was going to do, and for how much?  Or wasn't there a signed contract for any additional work?

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