In court docs: Hyperion states AROS "probably illegal"

[Floid]

Hmm, I guess I also left out my feeling that "probably illegal" in this context more suggests 'Well, crap, neither of our companies could dare rely on it without fear of being sued into oblivion' than any sort of direct accusation.  

Sort of the way some still fear or denigrate Linux just in case there's some unauditable/unprovable bomb of a commit lurking back in its history.  (...though even then, removing the bomb should make it clean, though Linus and distributors might have some cointoss risk of liability, strongly dependent on knowledge and intent...)

Evert's not a native speaker, right?  That's a bit of a mess of a concept to express succinctly, especially when the object is a project you're 'competing' with.

[uncharted]

Piru wrote:
"Workbench" - even though a registered trademark - can be used if it is required for interoperability. Basically it need to be, as applications can try to lock public screen called "Workbench". Similarily some older apps might strcmp the window->ScreenTitle to detect the Workbench screen, so IMO use of the it is legimate in this context, too.

Same goes for "intuition.library", it must be called that or the library cannot be found. Intuition isn't listed in the amiga trademarks, however, or at least i could not find it from my AmigaOS 3.5 manual.

As I said, many of those trademarks lapsed long before Gateway got it's hands on them.  Even Commodore dropped the ball on a few of them while Amiga was still popular.

The point I was trying to make was that the closest thing to a legal argument that Amiga Inc. could possibly have is a complete dead-end.

[Piru]

The AROS repository is running on a password protected SVN server, which means that you need to apply for access to it to be able to collaborate in the development. At the request of Amiga Inc., anonymous read-only access to the repository has been disabled.

Indeed that looks bad, and I've never understood what the heck that was all about (why should Amiga Inc have ANY say about this?). In worst case Amiga Inc could use that as some sort of leverage against AROS (yes, that's far fetched).

IMHO they should have just blatantly ignored any Amiga Inc communication as irrelevant.

[coldfish]

LOL @ Brian!  :lol:

Its obvious why Hyp' would attack AROS, greed and probably envy to some degree, while their OS is locked up in bitter and stupid legal feuding, AROS is free to continue developing into a usable OS.

AROS has the potential to do what Hyp and Ainc should've done ages (and I mean !AGES!) ago.  That is bring a fresh Amiga-ish OS to the masses.

Screw Hyperion and Ainc, the sooner both Co's fold and are forgotten, the better.

 

[dammy]

Quote:

    The AROS repository is running on a password protected SVN server, which means that you need to apply for access to it to be able to collaborate in the development. At the request of Amiga Inc., anonymous read-only access to the repository has been disabled.

The only reason that statement was never takend down (since you can download the source in a ISO vs SVN activity), it's a convient excuse to protect limited bandwidth to the SVN.  

Now back in the day, IIRC, when AROS was running afoul with one of Gateway/AI's IP, AROS did cater to AI's wishes.  It (left button for pull down menue) was taken out and after that patent expired, reintroduced to AROS.  That issue was solved, limited bandwidth to the SVN never has been.

Dammy

[Piru]

So how about adjusting that statement to indicate the real reason for the limited access?

[Floid]

dammy wrote:

The only reason that statement was never takend down (since you can download the source in a ISO vs SVN activity), it's a convient excuse to protect limited bandwidth to the SVN.

Good to know.  In fact, last I really looked was way before the switch to Subversion; I took a very brief poke around on the recent visit for an "obvious" 'get source here' link and didn't see it.

Now back in the day, IIRC, when AROS was running afoul with one of Gateway/AI's IP, AROS did cater to AI's wishes.  It (left button for pull down menue) was taken out and after that patent expired, reintroduced to AROS.  That issue was solved, limited bandwidth to the SVN never has been.

They/very early Bill&Fleecy AInc. also 'volunteered' their lawyers to write the license as it stands, if I recall.  And the whole point of the cooperation was to get blessing to carry on with the 'Amiga' mark (and be sure the new Amiga management didn't see anything they would want to jump up and complain or sue about) instead of becoming just 'Another Research OS.'  

... I take it AInc's actions to collect from MS for context-menu behavior weren't successful?

[bloodline]

Floid wrote:

... I take it AInc's actions to collect from MS for context-menu behavior weren't successful?

As I understand it, Commodore-Amiga held a patent that covered the opening up of a "Drop down menu" when the right mouse button is held down.

Apple were unaffected since they didn't use a right mouse button, and M$ used context sensitive menus that only required a right click rather than the button to be held down... thus the patent was pretty useless... except against AROS and MorphOS... but it expired years ago.

[Piru]

Actually the patent was about menu multiselect IIRC, or at least that is the relevant part.

I think this is the bit:

"A further object is to provide a system of the type described in which multiple menu items can be selected simply and expediently through the use of particular mouse button actuation sequences."

and specifically:

"Still further in accordance with the invention, multiple menu items can be selected during the same menu session by using a pair of mouse buttons to generate a sequence of selection commands which are utilized by unique system software to accumulate plural item selections without terminating the menu operation."

My understanding is that rest of the thing was so generic and with prior art so that it was unenforceable.

The patent in question was filed July 18, 1986, and thus expired July 18, 2006.

[amigean]

So how about adjusting that statement to indicate the real reason for the limited access?

Piru is right (again). Anyone?

[xeron]

Don't forget that at the time of the comment, AROS' name was basically "Amiga Operating System" with "Research" shoved in the middle. Why should AROS be allowed to call themselves "Amiga Research Operating System" if nobody else is allowed to call their OS "Amiga Operating System".

Thats what he was probably talking about, and it makes sense in the context of the lawsuit; they're talking about peoples permission to use the Amiga name and IP.

[xeron]

... as an example, do you think Apple would be happy if I wrote an OS X compatible system called "Mac Research OS X"?

or Microsoft would allow "Microsoft Windows Research Vista"? Come on, they sued over "Lindows"!

[itix]

How about applications like AmigaAmp? AmigaWriter? Whatever AmigaSomething apps are out there...

[guru-666]

this is all restarded.  14 year old kids are more mature. I'm ashamed to be an amiga user.   Ohh well at least I can get good prices for my stuff on ebay.
there is simpley nothing the amiga does better any more and will all this "legal" action about $2.50 I can only laugh as this is the ned of the amiga community.

thanks Bill M. and thanks Bill B.  you guys realy sunk the boat, I hope you are happy now.

over the years I have seen
amigathlon
amigaXL
OS4.0
morphOS
Aros
pos
come and go while inc just took every oppertunity to screw things up..  hyperion, inc genisi all a buch of fools, driving good developers away with amature actions.
some you ask ofr a new amiga... we have had so many, at this time there is no point anymore.  

[pixie]

xeron wrote:
Don't forget that at the time of the comment, AROS' name was basically "Amiga Operating System" with "Research" shoved in the middle. Why should AROS be allowed to call themselves "Amiga Research Operating System" if nobody else is allowed to call their OS "Amiga Operating System".

Yet it doesn't make it probably illegal... it's more on the mischiefs done against MorphOS then Amiga name being used on AROS.

[uncharted]

itix wrote:
How about applications like AmigaAmp? AmigaWriter? Whatever AmigaSomething apps are out there...

Using someone else's trademark as part of your application name is not the smartest to do at the best of times, but for AROS is was particularly stupid.