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Author Topic: I can't believe this cr*p!!!  (Read 8975 times)

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Offline stopthegop

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Re: I can't belive this cr*p!!!
« Reply #29 from previous page: May 15, 2007, 04:09:54 PM »
So listening to the radio makes one a thief?
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Offline spirantho

Re: I can't belive this cr*p!!!
« Reply #30 on: May 15, 2007, 04:12:35 PM »
Nope, 'cos the radio paid for it.

But recording it off the radio and using that instead of buying the CD definitely is, as that's not what was paid for.
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Offline Piru

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Re: I can't belive this cr*p!!!
« Reply #31 on: May 15, 2007, 04:25:09 PM »
@spirantho
Quote
But recording it off the radio and using that instead of buying the CD definitely is, as that's not what was paid for.

Recording off radio and listening the record is perfectly ok (here at least).

You pay the blank media levy for that.

Here's the explanation on the finnish private copying levy website:
Quote
What is fair compensation for private copying?

Anyone is allowed to copy music, movies, and television and radio broadcasts for their own private use. This is based on the Finnish Copyright Act, which allows published works to be copied without the author's permission. This type of copying is called "private copying."

In 1984, the Finnish Copyright Act was amended so that a "blank tape levy" was introduced to compensate private copying. Due to the European Union Copyright Directive the blank tape levy is now called "fair compensation for private copying." The purpose of fair compensation for private copying is to guarantee that when an EU Member State allows private copying, the creators and other right-owners will receive fair compensation.


Obviously your local legislation may be different, so beware.
 

Offline spirantho

Re: I can't belive this cr*p!!!
« Reply #32 on: May 15, 2007, 04:29:17 PM »
Not in my country you don't, I'm glad to say. :)

Plus I think that whole idea is contrary to just about every constitution in the world, as it implies "guilty until proven innocent".
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Offline Piru

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Re: I can't belive this cr*p!!!
« Reply #33 on: May 15, 2007, 04:33:43 PM »
Well, I'm mail-ordering my blank DVD+R's from Germany, so I don't need to pay the blank media levy. I don't record any ©ed audio or video on these discs though. Honest. :-)
 

Offline spirantho

Re: I can't belive this cr*p!!!
« Reply #34 on: May 15, 2007, 04:39:41 PM »
Just out interest, given current prices and that Wiki article, the implication is that if the UK were to employ the same service as Finland, prices of CD-Rs in the UK would more than triple!

As you can see this would be a teensy bit annoying to law-abiding types like myself who have a large need of CD-Rs but don't use them illegally....
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Offline Piru

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Re: I can't belive this cr*p!!!
« Reply #35 on: May 15, 2007, 04:46:14 PM »
@spirantho

No kidding. Even taking account the mail ordering, the medias from Germany are something like <25% of the price in Finland.
 

Offline MarkTime

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Re: I can't belive this cr*p!!!
« Reply #36 on: May 15, 2007, 04:54:10 PM »
In the USA, news broke today that Bush White House is lobbying congress to make 'attempted copyright violations' a felony, punishable by many years in prison.   In kind of a play on Roy Roger's sentiment that he 'never met a person he didn't like'...Bush never met a person he wouldn't throw in jail.  What Bush forgets, is its the people who decide how to run society.  It may be currently illegal to 'pirate' music...but this can be solved, by simply passing a law, making it legal to copy music.  Protection of an artists income can be done in many ways.  It doesn't have to be a game of throwing teenagers in jail, making them felons, and never allowing them to vote or even work a normal job again in their life....that type of answer, isn't the only answer to problems.
 

Offline Roj

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Re: I can't belive this cr*p!!!
« Reply #37 on: May 15, 2007, 05:25:11 PM »
Quote
Theft is theft, I don't care whether you're walking into a shop and stealing a CD or downloading it from someone else's hard disk, fact is you're stealing the intellectual property of the person who recorded that. Hence no sympathy from me.


This is suggesting an equation that I've never believed to be correct. Theft, by definition, is "the act of stealing, specifically: the felonious taking and removing of personal property with intent to deprive the rightful owner of it".

The definition specifies the removal of said property. It also indicates the intent to deprive the rightful owner of it, and says nothing of the derivitives which may or may not occur. It simply states that theft deprives the rightful owner of use of the actual property taken.

In other words, theft of intellectual property must include the removal of said property from the original owner. The establishment must be broken into and their computers and storage media must be physically removed from the location before it may be called an act of thievery. Otherwise, the correct term is Copyright infringement.

The word theft many times is used to induce Copyright infringers into believing that their acts are much more harmful than they actually are. I think few would argue that obtaining a work without permission is far less harmful to the owner than completely removing the work from their possession.

Now, having said that, I'll also say that Copyright infringement, while less harmful, is still a crime. The problem I personally have with it is in the way billion dollar corporations have effectively removed Copyright expiration. I won't go into the ramifications again. I hope most of you can figure those out for yourselves. I'm afraid that it's only going to get worse before it gets better.
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Offline jkirk

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Re: I can't belive this cr*p!!!
« Reply #38 on: May 15, 2007, 06:15:53 PM »
Quote

gizmo350 wrote:
@jkirk

You know there are a zillion "rules" by ASCAP and others regarding playing "music" in a private business. I know you can't play a CD, record, cassette or the like from a recorded medium without paying individual rights fees. But, some years back, maybe 10, the "radio" vs MUZAC thing came up here in the states. Private business won the right to play the "radio". There may be a fee associated with doing so, but not all the hassel that goes with individual "rights" useage per artist. I tried to find on Google but can't seem to come up with the right search criteria.



well if by radio you mean you set up a standard radio for the entertainment of the employees. i would agree with you on that. but if you install speakers so that anyone that walks in can listen to your "radio" then i disagree since this is a public broadcast of media not licensed to be broadcasted(in your store).
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Offline Tomas

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Re: I can't belive this cr*p!!!
« Reply #39 on: May 15, 2007, 07:32:49 PM »
Quote
And if anyone wants to comment about how the publishers get all the money anyway, ask yourself who'd publish them if they didn't? Without the publishers getting their cash the band would make no money at all, as they'd HAVE no publisher.

I bet you also think it is good how RIAA treats indepedants artists? Like how they want internet radio stations to pay them royalities even if they play their own made music or music from indepedants artists who actually wanted their music to be streamed for free.

And like i said, it is not always easy to get the music you want from the average record shop and music sold on itunes and similar is bogged down with DRM that goes completely against the fair usage bill. Our government is actually trying to ban DRM.

In the napster days i downloaded music and actually got to know some artists that i would never have known about otherwise, since that band was simply not marketted in my country. I ended up buying their albums, because i liked it and wanted to support them.

RIAA does not do anything good for music at all! They only help the big mainstream artists and themself while they hurt the smaller artists who are not mainstream and thus less innovation. Radio stations also these days only play mainstream music thanks to these idiots.
 

Offline pixie

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Re: I can't belive this cr*p!!!
« Reply #40 on: May 15, 2007, 08:24:47 PM »
Quote
I know I'm in the minority but I think people should PAY the people who are trying to make a living from recording music, I don't care at all if the cost of a CD is too expensive for a "poor" person to buy, if you can't afford it you can't have it, just like anything else in life.

The thing is you can, therefore the logic is flawed... and by theft you ought to take something out of someone, exactly what are you taking and from whom? If you don't get money trough exploration, you find another way to do it, not blame others for not going into the mood...

Addendum: Roj has explained it very well


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Offline sir_inferno

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Re: I can't belive this cr*p!!!
« Reply #41 on: May 15, 2007, 09:10:19 PM »
Quote

Delta wrote:
People would never buy 90% of the stuff they get from the net anyways.  They would not make anymore money with us even if the net was piracy-proof.  Seems they don't get it tho.



a great deal of people download stuff, to see whether they want to buy it. i for one download music i might feel i like, and then if i like it i'll buy the cd just to have better quality.
 

Offline Aegis

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Re: I can't belive this cr*p!!!
« Reply #42 on: May 15, 2007, 10:28:53 PM »
It ticks me off that kids are getting busted for downloading music tracks when I've got a bunch of people in my town center every weekend selling pirate DVDs in public and they never get arrested.

These guys must sell at least £10,000 worth of DVDs each on Saturdays and Sundays - I see people buying 5-10 movies at a time that they should be paying £20 each for but instead they're paying £10 for the lot.

They lay out a mat with inlays from maybe 30 current cinema/DVD releases and just sell all day - unbelieveable. :-(
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Re: I can't belive this cr*p!!!
« Reply #43 on: May 16, 2007, 01:16:58 AM »
It has been brought to my attention that some of the people who received these letters from the RIAA (probably not students) used old vinyl records as proof they had paid for the songs they downloaded.

Since the turntable format is now rather obsolete, they simply wanted a new media to carry the soundtrack they had paid for and the RIAA had to drop it.

Of couse since the vinyl records vanished from storeshelves, a lot of new songs have appeared and you may not find legal protection by going to the flee market and buying these old discs.

Also, charging more than 7$ per song is an absolute rip-off. iTunes sells songs online for much less than that. Getting songs from there is perfectly legal and I think the main reason why people download music or movies is because large distribution companies are overcharging.
 

Offline stopthegop

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Re: I can't belive this cr*p!!!
« Reply #44 on: May 16, 2007, 02:38:08 AM »
Sorry to sound libertarian here but, in a way, there are pure market forces at work here.  Big media companies have managed to postpone their obsolecense through legislation, but that lease on life is going to expire soon.  They are so oblivious to the desires of their customers and have abused their power for so long now, the forces of natural selection are going to do them in right before our eyes.  And with them, I hope, goes DRM, too.  
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