OS4 rollout schedule

[ShadesOfGrey]

@logain et al

Yes, but somebody still has to pay for the development of AOS4 on Pegasos, Macintosh, and/or .  AFAIK, neither Amiga Inc. nor Hyperion have that kind of capital.  Nor do either have the resources to support Pegasos owners using a retail AOS4 package.  Does anyone dispute this?!?!?!

Lets please stop rehashing the 'AOS4 on Pegasos' argument.  It's not going to happen unless Genesi obtain an OEM license from Amiga Inc.  Genesi have stated they will not obtain an OEM license from Amiga Inc. (well at least under the current terms).  So, what do you think the likely hood is that Amiga Inc (and/or Eyetech/Hyperion) would allow Hyperion (err...  themselves) to bring AOS4 to the Pegasos?


[PLEASE NOTE: The preceding comments were made from a 'neutral' point of view.  Neutral, in so much as they are not intentionally biased toward either the pro-Amiga/Eytech/Hyperion or pro-Genesi factions.  PLEASE DO NOT TWIST MY WORDS TO THAT END!

This was simply an argument, based on presently available facts, that we (the users of Amiga.org) should just drop the 'AOS4 on Pegasos' topic --- Edit --- until Amiga Inc./Hyperion start selling retail packages of AOS 4 (excluding AOS4 for PPC enabled 'Classic' systems). --- Edit ---.  It only creates a vicious cycle of flame wars and FUD.  Something that I could most certainly live without.]

[downix]

@ShadesofGrey

No, you seem to not grasp the intent of the question.

It was not that Genesi wanted AOS4 on the Pegasos for AOS4's sake, but the Pegasos's sake.  Frankly, paying to have it ported then having the Pegasos's customers have to pay again per-copy sounds rather foolish to me, does it not to you?  Hyperion has stated that they are charging per-copy of AOS4, so they should not be then discussing charging the hardware manufacturer for the port as well.  

Unless you're saying that Hyperion recieved monies from Eyetech and DCE for the ports to their respective hardware platforms (The A1 and Cyberstorm/Blizzard, respectively).

[KPK]

Imagine you start a company, build a computer system of whatever type and want to have a Operating System on it that you have NOT created yourself.

Do any of you imagine that this is free for an OS that is not Open Source in itself.

Here is one example of an OS company that even based their product on open-source, built some own stuff ontop of it, and even they will charge you if you want to sell the OS with the computer you build.

Do anyone expect them to besides this, also spend days and weeks to make changes in their operation system for free so that it run on a couple of hundreds boards more.

It must be in the interest of the inventor/manufacturer of the computer/mainboard to have software for it. Especially if the manufacturers customers wants it.

As a business, there is no cost-free way of pleasing customers. You just gotta decide what is worth what. Apparently there is a company talked about here who just don't think it's worth it.

This can be hurtful for their business since there seems to be in peoples interest to get this software with their hardware.

Oh well, they can always try and distribute their board with native Apple OS X. I am sure Apple software developers will spend time porting the nessary parts and require notthing in return. They wouldn't even want any insurance that the customers even purchase a single copy if the port which is a possible scenario.

Spend a year using money to build houses, if no-one wants to move in/buy them later your screwed. No return for your effort, just unpayed bills.

There are risks involved in any undertaking. But to delibrietly expose yourself to these risks would be kindof stupid.

Why don't people in the OS4 on [insert platform here] try and become a Microsoft OEM System Builder and examine that cost.

If you build a car and want leather seating in it. Who will pay for all that leather and also pay to make the leather company sew it to fit your seats? Well, You first, when you build that car. Then, when you sell that car you can charge your customer extra for it. It's as simple as that.

[xeron]

@Hans:



 :-D Thats a great new avatar, but isn't the light sabre the wrong colour?  ;-)  :-P

Heres a couple of ideas:

Red


"Boing"


 :-D

[bloodline]

You skillfully avoided my Question about the OS, there Ben (you could be a politician). Ok fine I imagine there are some things you don't want to talk about. We wil let the individual make his/her own conclusions then.

But this Licence argument is stupid.

You make a product (costs you money)... you sell this product (makes you money)... so why would you consider limiting your market (reducing possible income)?

Unless there is some ultra sick hardcore deal going on (read sums of money) between you and Eyetech, your position just seems to be one of a spoilt little child.

Frankly, I don't care if we ever see OS4 legally running on a Pegasos. But I don't understand your position, and it is things like this in the Amiga Market that seriously wind me up.

The only other reason I can see for this stance is that you don't have enough faith in OS4 to put it head to head against the Free MOS and AROS on the Peg?

[meerschaum]

@HyperionMP

I cant believe you  would say that about an other party, when your magical partner or whatever twisted arrangement you have for OS4 with amiga.inc  has so many rumors,nonsense  yet you slam on the other side like that? ....looks a bit hipocritical...but maybe I'm wrong on all counts..and Hyperion the game porting house gone OS developers  is just showing the characteristic AI camp honesty. ..

[selco]

The Draco has no CIAs by default.
But there are two chip sockets on the board to install CIAs manually by the user. (In case you want to use the Lightwave Donge, for instance)

I

[yssing]

Free OS and Free Sw.
I ahve had these discussing over and over again on other forums.
It seems to me, that those people who want free this and that SW, are the same people who are outrages when ever RIAA or similar sues them for copying and spreading MP3, movies and similar things.

Note, the above is just a general thing, and thus it cam not be aplied to every one who think thing should be free.

But anyway in the world I live in, I would have to charge for whatever I make.

I still have bills to pay, food to buy and so on.

I am pretty sure the good folks of Hyperion have bills to, and I am sure the would want to eat some times.

[Rogue]

Dietmar wrote:
A license requirement on top of the OS price looks like a thinly veiled attempt to milk money out of the hardware manufacturer.

It doesn't exactly take rocket science to figure out that an OS doesn't port itself to a different platform. It might be easy to get a prototype of some sort running on a Pegasos, but nothing can remain at prototye status. Yes, the northbridge is similar, but what about different mainboard components that require additional drivers.

Furthermore, do you actually know what such a licence would cost, if at all?

The second thing is that a licenced hardware will take part of the support problem away from us. If this wasn't the case, Hyperion/Amiga would need to exclusively take care about support, which would also mean having access to all hardware platforms it is supposed to run on (if we're talking about the Pegasos, this doesn't seem to be the problem although you would need at least one Arpil1 and one April2 machine, pluse a Peg II if available). Add to that Apple hardware (everybody's screaming for Apple hardware)...

Finally, what is wrong about extracting some money from it? After all, it might be a selling argument for the hardware manufacturer too. Obviously there are people that want OS 4 on the Pegasos.

[Rogue]

Tickly wrote:
Thats a great new avatar, but isn't the light sabre the wrong colour?

No, you need to see the Avatar of my brother.. HINT: people have been asking me about T-Shirt colors... This is the answer :-)

[HyperionMP]

>Frankly, I don't care if we ever see OS4 legally running on a >Pegasos. But I don't understand your position, and it is >things like this in the Amiga Market that seriously wind me >up.

I can't say I'm surprised. You are involved in a open-source project with people developing in their spare time and without any significant commercial incentive nor pressure.

Hyperion is allocating significant resources to have full-time professional developers working on OS 4.

We cannot afford the glacial speed at which AROS is being developed. People are already slamming us for taking around 18 months now to deliver OS 4.

As a result, we want to make sure we extract a reasonable compensation for our work to ensure continued development of the OS.

This means that any party wanting to offer OS 4 FOR THOSE CUSTOMERS THAT WANT IT must be willing to enter into a license scheme that at least somewhat guarantees a return on investment for us.

If a customer specifically asks for OS 4, why is it so hard for a hardware producer to agree to the license terms and ship that specific board with an OEM version of AmigaOS?

Let me tell you why: because the same hardware producer is pushing an alternative operating system and has a vested intrest in that.

It is a conflict of intrest.

Plus if they would enter into the license agreement, they would be required to cough up all hardware and firmware specifications in order for OS 4 to happen.

Let me tell you why: because the same hardware producer is pushing an alternative operating system and has a vested intrest in that.

It is a conflict of intrest.

So how do you explain that fact that Genesi are sponsoring the development of OpenBEOS, NewOS, AROS and a few other OS's to be ported to Pegasos?

Wouldn't they be confilts of interests too?  Especially AROS?

[HyperionMP]

bloodline wrote:
You skillfully avoided my Question about the OS, there Ben (you could be a politician). Ok fine I imagine there are some things you don't want to talk about. We wil let the individual make his/her own conclusions then.

I did?

You mean this question:

"Question: How much of OS4 has been written? From what I can gather only exec and maybe dos and intuition have been "ported" to the PPC... at what point does this become an OS one asks? The implication is that the original AmigaOS is required to boot and provide a significant amount of functionality... if this is the case then quite a bit more work will be required to make the A1 boot. "


I had hoped that my subsequent posts would have cleared up the misconceptions underlying your question.

OS 4 has an inbuilt emulation layer and the difference between 68K and PPC code is minimal.

There is no sandbox involved.

As a result, you cannot distinguish between OS 4 in its current status (with quite a number of modules still in 68K but very few original 3.1/3.5/3.9 modules) and its final status (with those same modules recompiled for PPC).

The only difference is speed, not functionality.

I quite frankly don't have a clue as to what this has to do with booting on the AmigaOne other than that the devices need to be reimplemented, an issue which I discussed already quite extensively.

[HyperionMP]

meerschaum wrote:
@HyperionMP

>I cant believe you  would say that about an other party, when >your magical partner or whatever twisted arrangement you >have for OS4 with amiga.inc  has so many rumors,nonsense  >yet you slam on the other side like that? ....looks a bit >hipocritical...but maybe I'm wrong on all counts..and >Hyperion the game porting house gone OS developers  is >just showing the characteristic AI camp honesty. ..

Our hardware partner is Eyetech and no-one else.

I have no reason to believe that Eyetech will not comply with all relevant consumer legislation with respect to the AmigaOne including warrzanty obligations and after sales service.

They have been in business for many years now.
 

[Karlos]

Just a thought. The OS4 68K emulation is JIT based. I'd expect, therefore that 68K code runs at speeds not far short of native.

-edit-

Native as in PPC code, I meant

-end edit-

For many IO device drivers, wouldn't the emulated 68K code already be faster than the hardware could keep up with anyway? I'd imagine stuff like graphics hardware drivers and the like would benefit most from 100% PPC native code.

Still a 100% PPC native OS should be the overall goal ;-)

[Karlos]

Sorry if thats been aswered already, I wasn't paying a lot of attention - thought this would just be another flame fest ;-)

-edit-

@Rouge,

LMAO, that's one funny avatar!