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Offline JurassicCamper

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Re: The Next-Gen Amiga hardware
« Reply #59 from previous page: June 13, 2003, 06:19:49 PM »
Buying new hardware keeps the second user market thriving as well.
How many people have bought something second hand because someone has upgrade.
The voodoo3 here in My Amiga1 is second hand.
My A4000 is now up for grabs as a result of me upgrading to an A1
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Offline Alkemyst

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Re: The Next-Gen Amiga hardware
« Reply #60 on: June 13, 2003, 06:22:19 PM »
Quote
So I'm not using an IBM since it is differnt then IBM's PS/2 road map IBM had way back when?

I don't care if Amiga Inc has the offical name or not that is just a name. Besides if Genesi wanted to they could contest the copyright on the name Amiga for the reason it is a spanish word and you can't copyright single words.


@Psy

Infact yes you can copyright a single word, existing or madeup.

If what your saying was true im sure the courts would of stoped Amiga from ever beeing used in the first place for all these years.

Microsoft have copyrighted Windows & we all know that the word windows has been around far longer than microsoft & another MS-Word

You can link almost any word you like to a product line. Once you do so im most cases no one else can use that name on similar products.



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Offline Madgun68

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Re: The Next-Gen Amiga hardware
« Reply #61 on: June 13, 2003, 06:34:25 PM »
Quote
Why do you guys have so many problems with your PC's, I am sure I do the same as you did, play games download music, surf internet, voice chat, video conferance, video edit (I love firewire) and word, excel, power point, outlook, and watch movies. What is it that you guys are doing wrong that I am not? I kinda feel left out of the bitching circle for amiga users that hate other OS's.
The issues I've seen with XP aren't serious.. Just annoying. I never could figure out why there were times the taskbar wouldn't pop up as it should. The last time it happened, I took a screen grab of it. It shows the Start menu (minus the actual start button itself), but the taskbar was no where to be seen. And yes, it is selected to always be on top.

I just got tired of dealing with that same old crap over and over again.
......
 

Offline Valan

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Re: The Next-Gen Amiga hardware
« Reply #62 on: June 13, 2003, 08:41:29 PM »
@ Mikeymike
The term 'hardware' does not mean CPU solely or graphics cad or chipset. It was not meant to suggest the PPC at all. MaybeI should be more definative and say 'Amiga hardware' or 'marketable Amigax hardware'.

'Hardware development' as in the hardware that has direct relevance to Amiga i.e the Eyetech Amiga range. Eyetech have always stated that they would use 'off the shelf' technology where they could. They are however developing the progress and expansion of thier Amigax hardware range for AI.

'It is the slowdown in OS4 development that has caused a slowdown in the Eyetech Amigax hardware progress development.' Is this better for you to read?

You stated that Apple would lower the price if a competative Amiga pushed them I was observing that they already had an uphill struggle against PCs but they still have thier high prices.


The original post was concerned about the hardware in general rather than just the state of the PPC used in the AmigaOne. So 'Back on topic' refered to comments that talked about the general state rather than talking about specifics of just one chip.

I remember the first stage was always to bring new hardware that used the PPC along with a more modern OS. PPC was chosen since there is already software that utilises it. Later afterOS5.x the Amiga will be more(but not totally) hardware independent.

I like and agree with what has been said by Kurt and Warpiper. We should look beyond the marketers fancy talk and look at the results.

Valan
 

Offline pioneer

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Re: The Next-Gen Amiga hardware
« Reply #63 on: June 13, 2003, 09:17:11 PM »
To Amigaguy:

Hardware snobs have to buy the latest video card and cpu to get a couple more frames per second in Quake (or the latest repetitive shooter). The difference in sound, graphics, and speed between adequate hardware and the latest is barely perceptible to the human senses. The point I'm making is modestly performing computers like the AmigaOne will handle just about any game or application. I didn't mean to get you so riled up. We're just talking about computers, right?
 

Offline jeffimix

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Re: The Next-Gen Amiga hardware
« Reply #64 on: June 13, 2003, 10:21:14 PM »
In my Opinion. It's whiny to ask for cheaper board. Eyetech are just trying to stay in business, with prices set for a rather obviously small market. Ever notice how 3D animation software is so expensive? That's not because it's harder to develop than a lot of stuff out there, but because it targets a very small market, and it certainly isn't easier to develop either, they need the money for further development, it's how capitalism and the dollar votes work. So what if you don't get firwires, only thing I see running on them is hardware that has USB clones, or sony stuff (Betamax anyone  :-x ?). The full computer (cd-burner harddrive and all) can still be made for under 1000$ dollars, sure it's not cutting edge, but its a heck of a lot better than what's out there. Sure the Pegasos had a much better price, when/if it releases Pegasos2 will be even better. Well maybe if Eyetech can make them the later boards will be better too. Looking at what I use on my PC board, I could still hook up everything into an AmigaOne board, my printer, camera (USB), monitor, keyboard). Ethernet's a card, GFX are all done from a card, mind you, I have a 2000$ Sony Vaio. Make do with what you have now, and support the companies you like with your 'voting' and push for better, you'll have a better chance getting it. So what horrible bugs have the current users of A1 hardware encountered, anyone? It's a good computer, so what if you don't get a gazillion plugs for more hardware than most people own, to do so many many things, like 95% of computing, you only need a couple hundred Megahertz of computing power, I use 400Mhz machines at work with Windows Xp, not fast, but it won't kill me, gets the job done.

Maybe I should just start using povray instead of Bryce (sarcasm, mmm-kay?) Cause I sure as heck know povray is cheaper, and it works faster too(just compare the resources using bryce requires to what using povray requires, considering povray 5.1 runs on amigas, although no ports have been done since).
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Offline NicoPPC

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Re: The Next-Gen Amiga hardware
« Reply #65 on: June 13, 2003, 10:58:10 PM »
Quote



I think that a mobo with AGPx2, no FireWire, USB 1.1 etc. simply has to at least try and compete with the latest PC mobo's offering AGPx8, 2 x LAN, RAID, USB 2.0 and the rest. Especially within the A1 price range.

I also said the Amiga is already dead if you look at the situation realistically. This is the last thing I want. I love the Amiga. There is nothing else available to replace it (MorphOS is not Amiga in my view).

What we need is a real alternative to the nForce2 mobos and others that will make the Amiga look competitive on the store shelves and online store web pages. Only then can we begin to imagine a comeback.


Well, you don't really an AGP*16 but indeed some AGP stuuf would be nice

Well, indeed MorphOS in not an Amiga. the Amiga is a computer, MorphOS is an OS...
Could you please explain why MorphOS is not close to the  AmigaOS ?

We don't really need a killing gfx card, because all the AGP card should work on current hardware (I mean LinuxOne AND Pegasos). What we need is a good OS (MorphOS in my point of view), with drivers and many software (game, office stuff, broswer ...)
 

Offline WarPiper

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Re: The Next-Gen Amiga hardware
« Reply #66 on: June 13, 2003, 11:01:07 PM »
@ jeffimix

ok, I will bite....

I happen to think that you are wrong about its whiney to ask for a lower price on the motherboard, sorry, I am looking forward to supporting the new system with a real OS (not linux) but I fear the huge price in the motherboard itself, man its alot, ok if the motherboard was like, lets say, $350 to $400, I would not even think a for a secound, I would just go and get it, thats it, but since most PC motherboards today go for between $70 to $120 and a 1.4 Ghz processor you can get for about on average (between AMD and Intel) $86 to 116, you are still looking at a cost (if the top of the line amigaone board was $400) on average about $200 more than that the PC equipment just mentioned, thats about double the price just for what is a niche market, and that would be fine, but no, the top of the line AmigaOne motherboard and processor is what $800?, I am not too sure, thats 4 times the price of the PC equipment mentioned above, 4 TIMES MAN!!!! COME ON, you dont see that as much to bitch about, then I need to live a few years in your shoes.

this is just my take on it and I am sure its the rest of everybody else's who are not walking around with money dripping from orifices that need not be mentioned here.

Please correct me if I am wrong on the price for the top of the line AmigaOne mobo, I compared the top of the line A1 board to 1.4 Ghz  Pprocessor with both very desent AMD and P4 motherboards becuase their processors and motherboards are faster than that of the AmigaOne's.

Its not about what comes on the motherboard and all its toys (sure they are nice but...), well you get the picture I am sure.

there just has to be somthing more there to intrest us in buying a AmigaOne motherboard besides that fact that you can someday run a PPC version of Amiga OS

Warpiper
There was a time I can remember computers were fun...I miss my A1200.
 

Offline Dementhor

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Re: The Next-Gen Amiga hardware
« Reply #67 on: June 14, 2003, 12:43:21 AM »
Well, the comparison has been made here with VHS/Betamax... It's the marketing that wins these days, not the technology and this has been the case with the Wintel  platform. Who even knows whta the hell Amiga is today, that is outside the Amiga community?

On the other hand the sheer power isn't everything - looka at Apple. Despite the processor's overestimated performance Photoshop and Quark XPress are more efficient on Apple than on a PC, more stable and reliable.

Amiga ghas to be made available to general public for a competitive/affordable price, and yes, it has been said here, with a decent SW bundle. I'm dying to swap my crappy PC for an Amiga, but I need some kind of an office package (how about: AmigaWorks - bundled, AmigaOffice - paid upgrade?) that can be localised (Unicode?) and will handle the standard data formats of today. Porting Mozilla shouldn't be that hard, and that already has everything I need... A bunch of bundled games would help the marketing too. And yes, an equivalent to Photoshop would be nice, thanks god PageStream is still around.

But - someone (Amiga Inc.) has to tell the ####in world - SO THE WORLD MAY KNOW and go and buy it - otherwise it will remain an expensive niche product forever or die after all anyhow...

DeMenthor
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Offline magnetic

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Re: The Next-Gen Amiga hardware
« Reply #68 on: June 14, 2003, 01:05:48 AM »
@warpiper
  You are 100 per cent correct in your view of the current market. I'm glad you will be coming to the meeting and seeing the demos. You can judge for yourself, its unfair because there is no OS4 for A1 and wont be for a few months... You Will be able to see MorphOS and test it for yourself. I think it will feel like an Amiga os" to you and should be blown away by the speed.  Linux will be running on the A1 with UAE running WB 3.1 which is fun. I will also be demonstrating Mac On Linux with Mac OS 9.1 running on the Pegasos (Try doing that on a PC mb)
That is the advantage of PPC over x86.
    Being an A+ tech and working on pcs and macs as well as Amigas, I can tell you that I will avoid having a pc if at all possible. The architecture is dogshit.. luckily chip technology is at a space-age height so the old 1970s x86 bullshit works at a reasonable speed... God forbid its your first computer - then you have to deal with Spyware, M$ antics, IE, Outlook, registering for everything.. etc.. Oh, and better have a  DSL connection or better to internet so you can download upgrades/and or /patches so your machine  can run...
  Wait, something is wrong with your pc? What? Your warranty is up.. well go ahead and give us a call at Dell/Gateway/Compaq/whoever else selling that crap... sure we'll be glad to help for $200 or $25 to just get our tech support operator! What? you only paid $600 for your PC. welll mR. X you may as well buy another one.. and so on.
  magnetic
 :-o
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Offline mdwh2

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Re: The Next-Gen Amiga hardware
« Reply #69 on: June 14, 2003, 02:37:34 AM »
@Psy, Alkemyst

You can't copyright words at all. You can have them as trademarks, on the other hand..
 

Offline WarPiper

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Re: The Next-Gen Amiga hardware
« Reply #70 on: June 14, 2003, 02:43:33 AM »
@ Magnetic

I agree with you an the architecture, but hay, what am I gonna do, we need these over size puke buckets to get get buy in todays corperate world.

I really look forward to seeing the AmigaOne and the Pegasus, I am also really interested in Morph OS, I would like to see what it looks and feels like.

to me if it looks like an Amiga, feels like and Amiga, acts like and Amiga, then its an Amiga.

remember IBM's answer to windows, OS2 and OS2 warp, it still looked and acted and felt like windows PC, but did we rename it to EYE BEE EMM, no.

well, I am just ranting right now, probably making no sense at all so, I will see you at qaug, later man.

sorry for any bad spelling here, but I am rushing.
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Offline Madgun68

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Re: The Next-Gen Amiga hardware
« Reply #71 on: June 14, 2003, 05:32:14 AM »
I wonder how much room Eyetech have for pricing though. You've got to figure in two licenses (three if you include the AmigaOne license) plus the cost for them to have someone make both the Teron and the Articia.
......
 

Offline JurassicCamper

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Re: The Next-Gen Amiga hardware
« Reply #72 on: June 14, 2003, 09:10:53 AM »
Quote

Madgun68 wrote:
I wonder how much room Eyetech have for pricing though. You've got to figure in two licenses (three if you include the AmigaOne license) plus the cost for them to have someone make both the Teron and the Articia.


They also have got to cater for the hundreds & hundreds of free copies of OS4 going to the early bird purchasers.
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Offline bbrv

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Re: The Next-Gen Amiga hardware
« Reply #73 on: June 14, 2003, 10:43:25 AM »
Hi All...magnetic brings up some interesting points that we covered in an earlier ANN post that we would like to modify a bit and post again here.

BTW, magnetic you did a GREAT job with THIS!  :-D

Title: Big Marketing Battles Ahead
   
  The Pegasos II will be the ONLY alternate hardware platform of its price and performance on the market.  The hard part will not be the whether or not it is a great product...IT WILL BE!  The challenge will be overcoming the market convention for many things.
   
  Challenge #1 (the old favorite): CPU speed
   
  Comparing the rated speed of two processors in MHz is virtually useless unless the processors are exactly of the same architecture. Even processors within the same family cannot be directly compared (Pentium I vs. II, III vs. IV, G3 vs. G4, etc.).  For example, the enhancements made to the Pentium II gave it far better performance characteristics than the Pentium. The difference in MHz alone could not account for the improvement. The increase was due more to a number of architectural changes, including cache sizes and algorithms, pipeline organization, memory access, etc.  If you cannot compare the MHz "rating" of CPUs from the same family (hint: Altivec) as it compares to the relative speed of the entire computer, you really cannot compare the clock speeds across two distinct families (IntelWhatever and PPC). The clock speeds of CPUs reminds us of the marketing hype that goes into selling vacuum cleaners or blow dryers -- which machine has more amps?  Anyway, back to computers...what "sucks" or "blows" more!?  We will need to overcome the primary propaganda PC-oriented marketing obstacle.  

Editor Note:  Here enters our catchy new PegPower marketing phrase inspired by Don Cox...

WATTS HAPPENING!  :-P
   
Power is the rate at which work is done, expressed as the amount of work per unit time and commonly measured in units such as the *watts* and horsepower (flying horses that is! Pegasos Power!).  Power (to do things) is the key... PegPower!
   
We need to get people thinking about what they can do and not the speed at which computer runs to do it.  :-)  Magnetic has made a start at this in the review HERE!
   
  Challenge #2
   
  It is NOT about MorphOS or AmigaOS.  It is about Microsoft vs. OpenSource.  This is about Linux folks.  :-o  The City of Munich recently decided to move its 14,000 desktops to Linux. SuSE confirmed that this meant it would be using SuSE Linux Desktop.  Congratuations to SuSE.  They are breaking down the "wall" for us.  We have not moved up to bug-on-the-windshield status yet.  First, we have to get them to try something new in the Pegasos hardware. THEN, we have to eliminate vendor lock and get people to partition their hard drive with more than a LinuxPPC distro (or they could have a few hard drives), only then might we get the chance to stand in for a few dances.   Remember, we are trying to get more people here!
   
   (Remember, the Trojan Horse...follow the link to there and catch the whole story  :-D  ! )  

We need to send a friendly Trojan Horse to the Linux Community too!
   
  Challenge #3
   
  Applications!  We have to have a lot of them.  If you want to create a *Community* you have to be part of it!  It won't be just Genesi spending time and money to move things ahead -- and THANKFULLY WE ARE NOT ALONE.  Have you noticed there are a few others getting involved...:-)  Visit MorphOS-News.  Scroll through the last few weeks.  Things are moving.  Nevertheless, we have MUCH MUCH MORE to do.  We REALLY appreciate all the help, but remember the bug analogue...(we have to get those wings moving!)

This is partly the reason we are moving into the DemoScene...check    this thread out if you missed it!
   
  What can we say when confronted by our GHz-pumping-steroid PC friends...
   
  Spitball #1
   
  Hey Friend, are you homogenized? Got Pegasos?  And while you are at it, please ask yourself the *ethical* MicroSoft question.  There is NO spyware or Gestapo installation tactics here.  We won't ask you endless privacy questions.  By the way, have you actually sat down and read a EULA lately? (forget MacOS for now...) Read through the one for XP Home today.  It actually prohibits you from connecting to your XP HOME PC via your network for anything other than file or print services. Technically, that seems to mean you cannot install something like Apache and run a small website from your own house. It also probably means you cannot install Oracle on your PC for learning purposes, because then you would be accessing a database service, which the EULA doesn't appear to allow.  Is it just a good thing that Microsoft does not yet have the technical means in place to enforce such draconian terms, but it sure does seem like they intend to head down that path...(if we let them...;-)  ).  In the meanwhile, the Pegasos offers FREEDOM to use the OS and applications you want! See PegasosPPC.com for details...;-)
   
  Spitball #2
   
  Why Choose A Pegasos?  Why The Dell Not!  
   
  Get them to ask themselves if they want to support boring clone outfits that benefit from pumping out the cheapest boxes with the least innovation, or if they want to go with a Company that - for all its faults - is ready to innovate like crazy!  Dell are parasites making commodity products.  They do not advance the state of the art of the industry.  They just make it a bit cheaper and you get what you pay for (and pay for, and pay for...).  
   
  Spitball #3
   
  What is the lifespan of the product?  An Apple investment has a practical lifespan of two-to-four times as long as the PC alternative.  Anyone want to address the resiliency of this Community...;-)  Then, you can address the CPU card, the upgrade path, scalabilty, the vibrant cool folks in the Community, etc. :-D
   
  The VALUE meter has to pull to the right, even against a lower entry-level cost of a PC-clone.  
   
  People are forever waiting for that new, faster CPU to come out. They end up waiting forever when they could get on with it and be using a NEW KIND OF COMPUTER tomorrow (...or at least in September!).  What is in front of them then has to be compelling for them to make this decision!!!
   
  We will need alot of help to be successful and appreciate all the effort being made.  PegPower!

Best regards,
Raquel and Bill :-)

Offline Alkemyst

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Re: The Next-Gen Amiga hardware
« Reply #74 on: June 14, 2003, 01:40:56 PM »
Quote
by mdwh2 on 2003/6/14 2:37:34

@Psy, Alkemyst

You can't copyright words at all. You can have them as trademarks, on the other hand..


 
Yes your right & thats what i ment.

Psy was claiming that amiga.inc can not copyright Amiga wich is true but that not what amiga.inc or any amiga firm before have done.

So there was confusion on my part.

I think what Psy may of been saying is that amiga.inc can not use amiga as a trademark because its a word wich has already got a meaning, in wich case he is wrong.
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