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Offline acherionTopic starter

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Amgia n00b here - A1200 questions
« on: March 20, 2007, 09:55:18 AM »
Hi guys,

I am somewhat of an Amiga n00b here, so please be kind with your responses -- the last time I used an Amiga was our trusty A2000 with Workbench 2.05 many moons ago!

I am not 100% sure, but I *think* my uncle has an Amiga 1200, and I was thinking of taking it off his hands and tinker around with it.  I say I think because I most definitely remember him having it on his desk, and although my uncle isn't the type of man that really throws anything away, I am not 100% sure that he has it still, or it could be in storage somewhere.  Anyway, I digress...

I have some questions about the A1200.  I have never used an A1200 before, and as I said earlier the latest Amiga I used (before I moved onto PCs -- yeah I know, sucks doesn't it) was an A2000 with WB2.05.  I am quite sure things had changed by the time the A1200 came out on the market.  I have read some info on the A1200, however I still have some questions about the machine, which the major ones are:

1) Does the A1200 have a VGA port?  I saw through the gallery that some people made dongles/adapters from the 23-pin DIN to a 15-pin VGA DIN, yet some other A1200s have VGA ports built in them or something.  Is VGA capability something that an add-on graphics card can only achieve, or is it easier (and cheaper) to just go the adapter route?  Can AGA drive a VGA signal?  I am planning on using my LCD screen to connect to the Amiga (it has both VGA and DVI connectors, in which my MacBook Pro connects to, and the monitor has a handy button on the front to switch between the two), how would this work with the PAL and Super-HiRes settings in Preferences?  Where can I find schematics for an adapter?  I'm quite handy with a soldering iron ;-)

2) What options are available for me to get the Meeg connected to a network?  I would like to get the machine onto the net and browse websites, go on IRC and the like.  I know that there is no Amiga Firefox port as of date, are there any decent web browsers that are open source that I could use?  Do these web browsers use rendering engines like KHTML or Mozilla?  I remember back in the day of my A2000 and even with my older A1000 that the serial port on the Amigas couldn't handle some higher speeds of bps, surely this problem doesn't exist with networks/ethernet on the A1200?  So my 1500kbps DSL link should be fine, right?

3) How can I go about connecting a CD-ROM drive to the machine?  CD-ROM would probably be all that I need -- no need to write discs or use DVDs.  I don't mind it being an external drive.

4) USB -- I know I'm asking a lot here, but I know that it can be done -- I came across the SUBWAY doodad that gives USB capabilities to an A1200.  Does this give USB2.0 capability, or will I be stuck at the slow speed of USB1.1?  If it's USB2.0, will it cope with the data speeds an external CD-ROM drive connected to the machine will exhibit?  Anything special needed for the A1200 to see for example a USB flash drive?  I would probably need something like CrossDOS to see a FAT32-formatted USB flash drive, right?

5) Would all of the above additions fit in the machine?  Maybe things like connecting a CD-ROM and a network card aren't possible at the same time, since they might need PCMCIA, in which the A1200 has only one or something.  Any gotchas that people can think of?

6) Last but not least -- should I even bother?! Emulation is looking mighty pretty all of the sudden.

By the way, I was an Amiga fanatic from way back, had an A1000 with the extra 256Kb expansion running WB1.3, and then upgraded to an ECS A2000 with 1Mb Fat Angus, which we expanded the hell out of.  At one stage, the machine had a 2.1GB IBM SCSI-2 drive, 40MB GVP Hard Drive on a Card, a 14MHz CPU speed upgrade with FPU, 2x SCSI CD-ROM drive, A530 for digitising images, and of course the trusty 1084S monitor ;-)  It's a real shame that the Amiga isn't really around much anymore (yeah, I know about OS4!), I really miss my OS booting in 5 seconds!  I guess OS X (my primary OS) is the closest I can get to the good ol' Amiga days.

Cheers guys, apologies for the long post, and I anticipate your responses!
-- George
 

Offline krize

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Re: Amgia n00b here - A1200 questions
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2007, 10:32:30 AM »
For gfx, you need to get a scandoubler to get it shown on a LCD/Normal pc screen. You can use workbench with a monitor driver like productivity, wich will work on LCD but when you run a game, it will not display at all...

cdrom - standard ide, you proably need an 2,5 -> 3,5 Ide converter. Network card in pcmcia, not expensive.

And no you ownt experience usb2.0 speed, but its compatible with the 2.0 standard.

if its worth it ? If you like to play with computers, ofcourse it is!

Also recomended; www.whdload.de ;)
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Offline skurk

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Re: Amgia n00b here - A1200 questions
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2007, 11:49:42 AM »
No, it doesn't have a VGA port - unfortunately.  Adapters do exist, but they require you to run a software hack which forces screenmodes up to 31kHz.  Since most games and demos have their own video setups, you will not be able to run any of them.  I recommend either a scandoubler (if you're loaded) or a VGA Box from Ebay (converts the composite output to VGA signal)
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Offline coldfish

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Re: Amgia n00b here - A1200 questions
« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2007, 12:10:26 PM »
6) I had an expanded A1200 for a while, but I have to admit UAE eventually lured me away, it's just more convenient if you're not into collecting mountains of old hardware.

 

Offline krize

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Re: Amgia n00b here - A1200 questions
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2007, 12:52:36 PM »
It depends, I totally loose the feeling if I have to wait and boot windows xp first, and then start winuae..

But ofcourse, its much better than anything...
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Offline Daniele

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Re: Amgia n00b here - A1200 questions
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2007, 01:04:16 PM »
Hello,

well I started like you and I have bought in the past months RGB<->VGA adaptor but did not achieve anything yet maybe I need scandoubler too.
But getting into A1200 world I had fun connecting external Cd-Rom drive using Idefix Express and bought a wireless card to surf the web.
Well I didn't use the Amiga at 100% bcoz need a lot of hardware and time reading forum and attemps too.
But I think that is worthy and would give me a lot of satisfactions.
If you have passion, a bit of time and money it's worthy and have fun!
Amiga 1200 into a DBox Tower with PPC603e@166Mhz040 256MB Mediator PCI SX - Ide-Fix Express OS4 Classic Voodoo3 Fast Ethernet - A1200 030@40MHZ - A2000 030@25MHZ - A500 - A500+ - A600 - C64 + MMC REPLAY!!!
 

Offline coldfish

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Re: Amgia n00b here - A1200 questions
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2007, 08:35:58 AM »
Quote

krize wrote:
It depends, I totally loose the feeling if I have to wait and boot windows xp first, and then start winuae..

But of course, its much better than anything...


My laptop comes out of hybernation faster than my old A1200 would boot to WB, (it's true!).  

After using emulators for a while, I found my real A1200 (as a classic gaming machine) slow, annoying and clunky.
 

Offline pVC

Re: Amgia n00b here - A1200 questions
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2007, 09:34:22 AM »
1) A1200 doesn't have VGA-port, but there are several options to get it in SVGA-monitor.

Cheapest and simpliest is plain RGB->VGA adapter, which doesn't have any extra logic. It just passes Amiga's signal to VGA. Most "PC" monitors don't display standard PAL/NTSC resolutions (but some LCD displays do nowadays). AGA, OTOH, can display VGA-compatible modes, so you can set screenmode to one of several options like DBLPAL, Super72 etc instead of PAL. You can find those extra monitor drivers from Sys:storage/monitors drawer. They have >30kHz output and will be displayed on SVGA-monitor. Problem is, that you mostly can set the display for Workbench and utils, but games and demos don't have selectable screenmode.. they're hardcoded to use PAL display.

Other option is to get scandoubler. It doubles the 15kHz output to 30kHz and shows PAL modes on VGA too. It's bit more expensive and some models work better than others. Probably a good middle way solution.

3rd option is to expand your A1200 with some busboard or PPC-accelerator and get proper gfx-card for it. Then you get PC standard display modes with good resolutions and color depths. Displaying PAL modes can be a problem with most of the gfxcard solutions too.

If you want to use Amiga only for games and demos, then you could connect it to your TV set. RGB->SCART will give the best picture quality. Second best would be self made SVHS modification, third built-in composite out from Amiga and the absolutely worst is to use built-in RF-modulator in A1200.


2) The easiest way for original case (assuming it's not put in tower case and doesn't contain zorro or pci bus) is to get 16bit PCMCIA network card. There are drivers and compatibility lists in Aminet. Check cnetdevice-1.9beta1.lha, 3c589.lha and prism2.lha archives. The latter is for WLAN cards and others for normal wired cards. It may be difficult to find compatible cards as new anymore, but there seems to be pretty much used ones around. I have recently bought working 3com card and Lucent's WLAN card which I have in use ATM :)

There isn't CSS capable browser for classic Amiga still, so when you've used to PC browsers it may feel all browsers are unusable. Also AGA restricts gfx modes for browsing bit too much. But if you have correct attitude, you can do needed things with Amiga browsers too :) Missing CSS only means uglier pages, but usually they work otherwise. Browsing is much more enjoyable with Amiga equipped with good gfx card.. it really makes wonders to web experience :)

IRC has been always the strong point on Amiga. AmIRC is still the king, but it hasn't got updates for some time. There's also new freeware client, WookieChat, which is progressing really nicely and will be enough for most.

For using the net it would be good to have some sort of memory/cpu expansion on your A1200. With standard A1200 it might be a bit difficult.. maybe basic ftp/samba transfers would work.

3) There have been some PCMCIA CD-ROMs, but I wouldn't recommend them. It's better have network card on PCMCIA. You can attach CD-rom to IDE. A1200 has 2,5" IDE connector, but with correct cabling you can have two devices attached to it. Or you can get so called IDE-splitter, which will allow up to 4 devices and has also 3,5" port on it. You must also remember that A1200's standard PSU might get too much load with CD-rom.

But if you get network card or USB, do you really need CD-rom then?

4) You need USB-stack, usually Poseidon on Amiga. I'm not sure if it comes with Subway.. maybe. Poseidon is pretty comprehensive and mounting USB-sticks etc is pretty much automatic :) Only thing you might need to do is to copy fat95 to L: and then it mounts USB mass storage devices automatically when they're inserted.

5) Some sort of accelerator makes life easier always. 030/50 with some memory is a good start. You can find them pretty cheaply if you look some time... unless it already has some accelerator card inside :)

6) Real is always the real :) But it's up to everyone how he/she feels it :)
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Offline krize

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Re: Amgia n00b here - A1200 questions
« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2007, 10:20:03 AM »
coldfish Yeah, well an basic a1200 is fairly basic.. I would need a gfx card to get something done :) Very sluggish and low resolution, no good..

But with a gfx card its much nicer, and fully usable.

Hybernation is probably nice but I always turn off all power in my house when I go to work etc anyways..Amiga doesnt take long time booting anyways.
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Offline acherionTopic starter

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Re: Amgia n00b here - A1200 questions
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2007, 11:55:25 PM »
Thanks for your replies guys, especially yours pVC, very detailed!

I guess I'll mull over it for a few days more before deciding if it's worth it or not.
 

Offline Wilse

Re: Amgia n00b here - A1200 questions
« Reply #10 on: March 22, 2007, 12:03:20 AM »
Good luck if you decide to go ahead.

Quite a project from scratch.

I have my A1200 in a tower with a CD burner, etc. but I use it exclusively for OctaMED these.


Offline weirdami

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correction
« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2007, 02:57:59 AM »
Quote
A1200 questions


Maybe English isn't your first language. The proper way to express that sentiment is "One thousand two hundred questions". You've mixed singular and plural there. It's a simple mistake.

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Offline acherionTopic starter

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Re: correction
« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2007, 04:23:27 AM »
Quote

weirdami wrote:
Maybe English isn't your first language. The proper way to express that sentiment is "One thousand two hundred questions". You've mixed singular and plural there. It's a simple mistake.


English is my first language, since I was born and grew up in a country where English is the primary language.

I used questions instead of question, since I have more than 1 question in regards to the A1200 (which is an abbreviated version of "Amiga 1200", a computer model made by Commodore).

So I don't believe I made a mistake at all.  Maybe English isn't your first language?  I didn't know this forum had grammar police.
 

Offline weirdami

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Re: correction
« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2007, 05:11:44 AM »
Quote
I didn't know this forum had grammar police.


Oh, you better believe it!  :smack:


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Offline skurk

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Re: Amgia n00b here - A1200 questions
« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2007, 07:44:32 AM »
Quote

coldfish wrote:
After using emulators for a while, I found my real A1200 (as a classic gaming machine) slow, annoying and clunky.


..then I guess you're not coding on the Amiga?  I've been writing a couple of intros in E-UAE lately where the raster timing turned out to be completely wrong on a real Amiga.  I thought I spent about 70% CPU time, did in fact use about 120%.  In E-UAE everything ran smoothly, but on the Amiga it was lagging like crazy.

This is one of the reasons I'm currently building an A600 from eBay parts.
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