How to generate .info when copying files to PC volumes...?

[hotchalupa]

I've been using a combination of ADF Terminal Sender (PC side) + Receive.bas (Amiga side) to transfer files from my PC to my A1000...  The file transfers work like a charm, but here's my dilemma:

- If I transfer an executable, it does not carry its attributes (executable bit), so the file is a simple binary on the Amiga.

- I have a very limited WB 1.3 boot floppy that has none of the important commands (such as protect...or even list/copy/makedir...etc!), so no way for me to go to a CLI window and alter files through command line.

- Because of the first bullet above, transferring any of the standard (and important for what I'm trying to accomplish) commands from the PC into the SYS:c/ directory is useless because they come through as plain binaries with no executable bit set.

Now, at some point during me experimenting with file transfers, I copied a few files from an ADF (happened to be the standard WB 1.3.4 image included with Amiga Forever) to a mounted Windows volume using the Amiga Forever provided WB 3.1 environment.  I simply dragged and dropped these files and it actually generated respective .info files for them... When I transferred the files over to the A1000's RAM: disk, on their own they were unusable, but when I transferred the corresponding .info to the same path, the files became useable.

I have since been unable to duplicate this, although I've noticed there are, by default, .info's residing in specific ADF directories but mostly accompanying directory names (I guess holding the dir icon data, etc).  I want to be able to generate these for executable files so that I can transfer these and make them work on the A1000.

My ultimate goal is to be able to transfer the important AmigaDOS commands and "transdisk" or "transADF" so that I can actually start sending disk images to my A1000, one of which contains the necessary stuff to boot into a WB 1.3 environment with all the messyDOS stuff in it, which will in turn make life a lot easier for me.

Any ideas?  :-?

[motorollin]

hotchalupa wrote:
- If I transfer an executable, it does not carry its attributes (executable bit), so the file is a simple binary on the Amiga.

This is because you're transferring the file [EDIT]from[/EDIT] a filesystem which does not support Amiga file attributes.

hotchalupa wrote:
- I have a very limited WB 1.3 boot floppy that has none of the important commands (such as protect...or even list/copy/makedir...etc!), so no way for me to go to a CLI window and alter files through command line.

Can you alter these properties through the Information window? I can't remember on 1.3 now but it might be worth a try.

hotchalupa wrote:
- Because of the first bullet above, transferring any of the standard (and important for what I'm trying to accomplish) commands from the PC into the SYS:c/ directory is useless because they come through as plain binaries with no executable bit set.

Why not just put the "protect" command in C:?

hotchalupa wrote:
Now, at some point during me experimenting with file transfers, I copied a few files from an ADF (happened to be the standard WB 1.3.4 image included with Amiga Forever) to a mounted Windows volume using the Amiga Forever provided WB 3.1 environment.  I simply dragged and dropped these files and it actually generated respective .info files for them... When I transferred the files over to the A1000's RAM: disk, on their own they were unusable, but when I transferred the corresponding .info to the same path, the files became useable.

If you drag and drop the icon then the .info will be copied as well, which probably kept the "Tool" icon type, which is why it was then executable.

hotchalupa wrote:
I have since been unable to duplicate this, although I've noticed there are, by default, .info's residing in specific ADF directories but mostly accompanying directory names (I guess holding the dir icon data, etc).  I want to be able to generate these for executable files so that I can transfer these and make them work on the A1000.

Don't know of any way to do this automatically.

hotchalupa wrote:
My ultimate goal is to be able to transfer the important AmigaDOS commands and "transdisk" or "transADF" so that I can actually start sending disk images to my A1000, one of which contains the necessary stuff to boot into a WB 1.3 environment with all the messyDOS stuff in it, which will in turn make life a lot easier for me.

Just get "protect" on to your floppy. Then copy transdisk on to it and make it executable. Then you can fix any subsequent commands you transfer.

--
moto

[hotchalupa]

Thanks for your reply!

There is no way to change the properties through the GUI in WB 1.3 that I have found, so that isn't an option (was the first thing I looked into).

The protect command suffers from the same issue when I transfer it over from the PC to the Amiga, it is no longer considered an executable.

The only copy of WB 1.3 (full) that I had is in a disk that became utterly corrupt and crashes my Amiga whenever I insert it into any drive.  For this reason I've been working off of a game boot disk that happened to use WB 1.3, albiet a very minimal configuration (missing pretty much every vital command).

So, back to the .info issue... Is there a way to generate or force the file to be created along with the executable file when dragging and dropping, or copying through a command shell, onto any volume (Amiga or PC)?  Having such file created is the key here, it seems.. I don't know what I did different when they were generated when I copied the first few files... I don't think I'm doing anything different.  :roll:

This is a catch22 situation and it is frustrating.  :madashell:

[motorollin]

Do you want me to post you a floppy disk with the protect command on it? Then you can copy it to your Workbench disk and use it to make TransDisk executable, and then write the Workbench 1.3 ADF from Amiga Forever to a disk.

[EDIT]
There might be another way if you have lha, unzip or similar already on an Amiga floppy. Do you have this?
[/EDIT]

--
moto

[hotchalupa]

I really appreciate you offering to do that (not to mention, taking the time to read my entire post), but before we proceed with that route, I think I'm going to try and explain the scenario in more detail...

I have a WB 1.3 full ADF image (actually, a few including the one in the Amiga Forever CD), but my problem isn't locating a copy of Protect (or any of the utilities I need)...

On the Amiga side, I have nothing at my disposal (no LHa, unzip, or other type of utility).  I have a plain vanilla WB 1.3 boot environment lacking most system commands.

On the PC side I have the Amiga Forever provided environments (WB 1.3, WB 3.1, etc), and various images with the files that I need.

Where the process breaks is that my only venue for getting any of these needed files to the Amiga is via the ADF Terminal Sender (or WarTrans also, both work) via null modem cable from the PC.  In order for any files to be transferred in this fashion, I must copy them over to a DOS/Windows volume (be it a floppy disk or just a directory in my PC's hard drive).  When the file systems are mounted in WB (1.3 or 3.1), any files copied to them maintain their attributes... That is, I can actually manipulate them as executables from within Workbench, while residing in a non-Amiga volume.  However, when I transfer the file via null modem cable using any of the methods mentioned above, the only thing being sent is the file's raw binary data itself... The file system information that contains the attribute information for each file in the directory (which is not part of the file itself) is not sent along with the file.  This is to be expected.

Locating a copy of Protect, transdisk...or even an LHa or unzip compression utility is no issue, I've got those.. But unfortunately I have them on the PC side, so sending them over makes them lose all their attributes, so we're back to square one.

There has got to be a way to have the OS generate these .info files that are file specific (as opposed to the directory ones, or the plain ".info" that is often created in the root directory).  It happened once and I wasn't even trying to do so purposely, so there has got to be a way...

I'm hoping someone is able to shed some light.   :-(

[motorollin]

I understand your problem that every time you copy a command from the PC to the Amiga you lose the executable bit. This means you can't copy TransDisk, LHA or UnZIP in order to get get the tools you need on to your Amiga. If you create a Tool icon inside Amiga Forever, for example for LHA, then copy it along with LHA, then LHA will have an icon. The problem is that LHA is a CLI command not a Workbench command so you won't be able to use it from the icon. You will still need to use the CLI to execute it, which won't work unless it has the executable protection bit. Your only hope is one of the following:

1. Obtain a disk with the protect command on it. Copy the commands you need to your Amiga and make them executable with Protect.

2. Obtain a disk with LHA, LZH, or Unzip on it. Inside Amiga Forever, create an archive containing the commands you need. Copy the archive to your Amiga. Unarchive it on the Amiga, and you will end up with files with the executable bit preserved.

3. Buy a Workbench disk :-)

[EDIT]
4. A GUI-based ADF writer would also work if you copied its Tool icon (.info) as this would be executed as a Tool from Workbench, but I can't find any of these which work on 1.3.
[/EDIT]

--
moto

[hotchalupa]

" 3. Buy a Workbench disk "

You mean the ADF's in Amiga Forever don't count as buying?  :-D

Okay, so I can get to a command prompt by hitting Ctrl D during startup... I then type loadwb and I get WB + the AmigaDOS shell still open... Since the disk I have happens to have AmigaBASIC in it, too, if I type AmigaBASIC from the command prompt it loads up, so I know that's working...  Also, when I transfer a file, such as transwarp, to my RAM disk, if I type RAM:transwarp I get an "Unable to load RAM:transwarp: Error code 121", which I believe is the same as saying it does not have a "default tool" associated with it (since it's seeing the file as a plain file).

So close, yet so far away...  It's almost like a hanging carrot in front of a race horse...

Oh well, the ordeal was so that I could do this without having to wait for a WB disk to arrive in the mail or something along those lines... Impatient, I guess.  :-P

Everything's pointing towards me being stuck in the good ol' chicken and the egg situation.  

I did try using the .info from another executable by naming it transwarp.info (for example), but the results are catastrophic... The Guru couldn't even trap this one.  :-o

[motorollin]

hotchalupa wrote:
" 3. Buy a Workbench disk "

You mean the ADF's in Amiga Forever don't count as buying?  :-D

Yes it does, but that doesn't help you to get them on to floppies :-)

hotchalupa wrote:
Okay, so I can get to a command prompt by hitting Ctrl D during startup... I then type loadwb and I get WB + the AmigaDOS shell still open... Since the disk I have happens to have AmigaBASIC in it, too, if I type AmigaBASIC from the command prompt it loads up, so I know that's working...  Also, when I transfer a file, such as transwarp, to my RAM disk, if I type RAM:transwarp I get an "Unable to load RAM:transwarp: Error code 121", which I believe is the same as saying it does not have a "default tool" associated with it (since it's seeing the file as a plain file).

Default tool is only relevant for Project icons launched from Workbench. AmigaDOS error 121 means that the file is not executable.

hotchalupa wrote:
Everything's pointing towards me being stuck in the good ol' chicken and the egg situation.

Correct unfortunately! I'm in England so it might take a while to get you a disk with Protect on it, but I'm happy to send if you need it.

hotchalupa wrote:
I did try using the .info from another executable by naming it transwarp.info (for example), but the results are catastrophic...

... because the application need to be run from the shell and you ran it using a tool icon. This won't work (same reason why you can't run LHA using an icon).

--
moto

[hotchalupa]

There's a chance I can get a good copy of WB 1.3 by Saturday.  All problems will be solved then!

Thanks for helping me brainstorm...wait, scratch that... realize that I hit a dead end.  I would've spent another day or two  :horse: and going  :crazy:

 :-D

[motorollin]

No worries. Hopefully a WB1.3 disk will sort your problems :-D

--
moto

[hotchalupa]

OMG... Persistance has paid off!!  I figured it out...

So, #1) Do not use ADF Terminal Sender unless you have a full blown (7 wire) null modem cable... In my case, I have a Ghetto-Riffic HotChalupa Limited Edition 3 wire (RX/TX/SG) cable I jerryrigged out of a parallel laplink cable and a DB9 gender converter (female on both sides).

However... Such cable works perfect (no file corruption) with WarTrans at 9600bps...

#2) You must set the file attribute in DOS/Windows to System (attrib +s)!!  I tried this and it worked!!  I can now use Protect (and any other system command I send from my PC to my Amiga's C: directory)!

Now the only drawback with his method is speed... WarTrans is about 10 times slower than ADF Terminal Sender, even at 9600 bps... But it does not rely on the RTC/DTC signals so you can use it with a cheaply made ghetto cable (as mentioned above) without losing any data during the transfer.

Hopefully if anyone runs into this problem also, they'll be able to find this post right away.. I'd hate to know others lost as much sleep as myself over this!  (Okay, so it's my fault for being impatient...but at least I got it working!)

 :-D

[InTheSand]

Hi,

Once you've got the basics transferred, there's enough space on a 1.3 disk (once some of the junk is removed) for MultiDOS, the CLI-based ADF read/write tools (adf2disk, devblocktools, etc) and something like CLI-mate (rudimentary file manager, bit like DOpus's early ancestor!)

You might find that transferring via floppies is quicker than using a 9600baud link...

 - Ali

[motorollin]

Glad you got it working! Interesting about the system attribute in DOS. It must translate to the Executable bit on an Amiga filesystem for some reason. Weird!

--
moto

[hotchalupa]

@motorollin

I know!  But weirdness is good when it solves an issue! :cheers:

@InTheSand

I actually made a custom WB1.3 disk with everything I need for transferring... I've been using transwarp at 28800 bps and so far every disk I've xferred from PC->Amiga has worked flawlessly.

It takes 5 minutes and 17 ~ 18 seconds (varies by 1 second, lol) to transfer a full, uncompressed, 880k ADF, and since it's writing directly to a floppy, it's a single action process..

In the price-to-performance arena, this beats a Catweasel Mk4 by a few punches!

One thing's for sure, though... I'm an Amiga n00b, and yet this whole process has thought me a whole lot more about AmigaDOS and WB than I had been able to learn with casual useage in the last few years!

It was more of a challenge than a cost-saving measure.  The Catweasel Mk4 is still in my AmigaKit shopping cart... Maybe during a moment of weakness I will click on the Checkout button.  :-D

[InTheSand]

Heh! Yep, it's a bit cheaper than a Catweasel!

But then again, the Catweasel is great when doing bulk transfers (in either direction) of Amiga disks...

Plus the Catweasel has support for other disk formats, especially in the last driver update (which I still haven't yet applied, d'oh!)

 - Ali