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Author Topic: copies of copy written software on ebay  (Read 3068 times)

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Offline amiga92570Topic starter

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copies of copy written software on ebay
« on: March 14, 2007, 01:38:04 AM »
Why do people persist on giving copies of copy written commercially sold software on ebay. I will not mention the seller, but I bet a lot of you can guess or figure it out pretty quickly. This is exactly why it is hard for companies or individuals to justify allocating time and resources to develop software for Amiga. I wonder why Ebay lets people do this?
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Offline Jeff

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Re: copies of copy written software on ebay
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2007, 01:43:08 AM »
My guess is that ebay doesn't always even know about it unless it gets reported. So why not report it and see if ebay pulls the auction.
 

Offline TheMagicM

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Re: copies of copy written software on ebay
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2007, 03:52:24 AM »
companies dont write software for the Amiga because it is old news.  Its not profitable to write software for the Amiga.
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Offline weirdami

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Re: copies of copy written software on ebay
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2007, 06:47:45 AM »
@Jeff

And, when you report it, they don't care or do anything because you have to be a copyright holder who's complaining. It took three years of reporting Mystery Science Theater 3000 bootlegs on there before they finally did something and that was only because Best Brains (MST3K owner) finally contacted them about it. You don't find any now, but the bootleggers still have websites that say "see my ebay feedback!!!!!111".
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Offline da9000

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Re: copies of copy written software on ebay
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2007, 10:03:21 AM »
And just to add some conspiracy theory: eBay profits would decrease if they pulled stuff like this off. And at the same time there's no way someone in their right mind would 'shoot the messanger', aka: sue eBay (who, lets not forget has enough money to buy up Paypal for 1.5bill, Skype for another 4.5whatever bill, half.com for 120mill, etc)
 

Offline motrucker

Re: copies of copy written software on ebay
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2007, 01:08:36 PM »
This shows just how crooked eBay is. Crooked to the core! The best I have seen, is they made a seller remove a pirate copy, but allowed him to re-list the next day! (The exact same add, too!)
I bought a disk of ASIM CDFS 3.10 that was supposedly real - it wasn't. The disk label was a fair copy of the original, but you can tell it isn't (I have an original)!
I don't know how they get away with it.......
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Offline koaftder

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Re: copies of copy written software on ebay
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2007, 01:29:32 PM »
Every time ive reported a pirate to ebay, they have been yanked. Sure, some times they go right back and post it again, and again i report and they get yanked. ebay can only do but so much to stop fraudsters. They wait until a guy has built up a rap sheet before they blast them off the system. They do what they do to maintain profitability and reduce liability like any other business.
 

Offline JaXanim

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Re: copies of copy written software on ebay
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2007, 09:00:48 PM »
You could argue that unless pirated software gets distributed somehow, the classic Amiga will disappear completely. I see 'new' Amigans popping up in the groups all the time. They obviously need a continuing source of software to maintain that initial interest and in nine cases out of ten, they'll end up running bootleg copies. The dilemma for some, is whether the Amiga's unique fascination is worth that price. Realistically, almost every floppy game ever retailed will become unusable through age. Should nobody after that point be permitted to savour it's uniqueness?

As I've said elsewhere today, I have no particular hangups about copying games that are no longer available from retailers nor from companies long since in oblivion. Whether you use such stuff yourself is a matter of personal choice. I know many Amigans are passionate about retaining or preserving a semblence of purity, but there's a reality check as well as an ethical/legal stand to be made. The days of blaming the pirates for killing off the Amiga have long since passed into history. Whether that history includes the next five years could depend in part on peoples' attitude towards copying/distributing obsolete software.

As for eBay, it would be better if those selling pirated games actually admitted to it. Many people buying Amiga software there know a large proportion of it will be copied. Though eBay are anti-copying by statute, they really only police it by responding to complaints from the public. They try to maintain an 'anti' image, but only if they have to. If nobody complained, eBay will be happy to take their fees, for pirated software or otherwise. The truly bad issue is of sellers taking someone's money by conning them into believing the stuff is genuine. If they sold copies as copies, they'd get the an appropriate response from punters.

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Offline adz

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Re: copies of copy written software on ebay
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2007, 09:48:09 PM »
Quote

amiga92570 wrote:
Why do people persist on giving copies of copy written commercially sold software on ebay. I will not mention the seller, but I bet a lot of you can guess or figure it out pretty quickly. This is exactly why it is hard for companies or individuals to justify allocating time and resources to develop software for Amiga. I wonder why Ebay lets people do this?



Hmmm, software for Windows is still heavily pirated, yet companies and individuals still allocate time and resources to develop software for it. Besides, allocating time and resources to new Amiga software doesn't make any sense, from a business perspective, there simply isn't a big enough market.
 

Offline da9000

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Re: copies of copy written software on ebay
« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2007, 09:49:28 PM »
@JaXanim:

well said!

I know it's a touchy issue, the issue of piracy, and I think both sides have very good points, but my personal opinion leans on JaXanim's side, because in the end realistic points of view have to take precedence. I've written commerical software, and the issue of piracy always came up, but having been part of the "scene" when I was a kid, I realized the futility of trying to protect the software. So I/we opted for no protection. In fact, after a point I was happy to see my software in pirate sites, because as JaXanim said: it wasn't dead! After sometime the obvious came through: if you want people to buy your software, you make it really really valuable and good (plenty of good, useful features), and NOT by adding traps. Traps will always be broken. Sometimes it's too easy (I won't go into details).

Now taking this to the Amiga world, and once again this is my opinion only but I believe it's shared by many. What killed Amiga wasn't software piracy. It is and has always been one reason: the stupidest corporation ever: Commodore. The reasons are simple: look at Commodore's history and how they handled the situtation and their GOLD, because they practically had gold in their hands! (
 :rtfm: http://www.floodgap.com/retrobits/ckb/secret/ <- if the author is around here and reads these forums, congrats, awesome site!) To further understand that it wasn't piracy, look at the software trends for Amiga. Companies didn't suddenly stop making software while Commodore had its brains in its head and wasn't dead. No. They stopped AFTER Commodore practically dropped dead. Of course there was "hope" that someone else would take over Commodore's role, and that's why many game companies continued making software (ex: Team17, Psygnosis, etc), but slowly their hope also dwindled and died (like ours). Then they all stopped. The Wintel platform was much more attractive and sadly the Mac had also withered down, having lost their vision and Steve Jobs.

And now my opinion on how to "protect the Amiga software": make new software. More and newer software. What Amiga needs, is not protecting the old. What it needs is new software, bringing features from the state of the art platforms (this will sound like a joke, but it's true that they have advanced since 1993: Windblows and of course the very advanced Mac OS X). And please believe me that it's NOT impossible. What I mean is, at least personally as a programmer, I have seen through the years of maturing (heh, yeah right!) that after I look back in time, I can do many of the things I can do today even on my old 8bit computers and even better, but only now that I have the foresight. So, basically most advanced software features (random example: CDROM/DVD burning) can be back-ported to older platforms, using tricks like smarter caching and buffering and supporting new technologies which didn't exist back then, such as "Burn Proof". To make it short: Amiga needs new (or ported) software. That is the only way to "protect the Amiga heritage". If you want to think of a parallel, think of countries with aging populations. All experts agree, unilaterally, that the only way to save the country is by having more kids, not by protecting the old via drugs and medicinal science, because in the end: they will die, no matter what. With the Amiga, the old software will die (not necessarily bit-rot, but functionality wise) or become boring, no matter what.

Lastly, JaXanim makes a very good point: how will Amiga survive into new generations if software is impossible to find? The new comers won't even give it a glance if they realize (and it's very easy) that there's no way to "get a taste" without investing so much (low barrier of entry). This is critical. I've had personal experience with this and other platforms. And if I didn't interact, I would have never had enough time to realize its worth. Similarly, all these "emu wave" kids are looking for new games to check out and play, and they have HUNDREDS of platforms to choose from. If Amiga isn't one of them, well, how does that help the Amiga world with new blood? It doesn't. And the old Amiga blood is dying, unfortunately...

There comes a point when written law has no positive value anymore...

Long Live Amiga!
 

Offline koaftder

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Re: copies of copy written software on ebay
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2007, 05:20:44 AM »
I could care less about piracy, but trying to make a dollar doing it is just wrong.
 

Offline da9000

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Re: copies of copy written software on ebay
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2007, 10:12:09 AM »
@koaftder:

I agree there; that's plain lame.
 

Offline JaXanim

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Re: copies of copy written software on ebay
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2007, 10:26:29 AM »
Pirated software, like anything else, has a market value. Providing the punters know the stuff is copied, (pirated, illegal, call it what you will) then they will respond accordingly. Some will walk away, others won't. The bad thing is the amount of fraud involved. If it's a copy, say so. It's really that simple. Let eBay do its own dirty work.

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Offline amiga92570Topic starter

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Re: copies of copy written software on ebay
« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2007, 12:19:38 PM »
I can see someone copying a program where the company went belly up. How else would you get it. I was speaking of software that is still sold in retail outlets and is still being developed and supported. Support won't last long if authors do not get some money..
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Offline JaXanim

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Re: copies of copy written software on ebay
« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2007, 12:56:17 PM »
@amiga92570

I think everything that's been said still applies.

JaX
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