Demand for a BBS?

[James]

I dunno... last time I tried to make ANSIs on Amiga... they didn't show up very well on other computers. There were quite a number of compatibility problems back then.... But I'll give it a try.. see if that's fixed.

[dammy]

As a old CNet (2.x, 3.x, 4.x) SysOp, I really do not see the need for a new BBS software anymore.  I would like to see CNet pushed into the web.  My POV is this, it would be better then XOOPS any days.  :-D

Dammy

[McVenco]

dammy wrote:

I really do not see the need for a new BBS software anymore.

That wasn't the point really. I agree that it's nonsense to make new BBS software, but it IS fun to set up a BBS, just for old time's sake, even if only 2 people will come and visit it.

I used to have lots of fun dialing in to my own BBS via nullmodem.device, that was even more fun than having people actually dialing in from somewhere else :-D

[itix]

[Files]
Someone suggested no ratio. Although I'm very tempted by this as I don't believe in 'charging' people....I don't want the BBS to become just a copy of Aminet where ppl download but never contribute. I'd keep a low ratio, but I'd like users to send in files once in a blue moon.

I dont see point really. One reason why I stopped using BBS was ratios. Why upload when you can get everything from the web?

I don't think file area is going to work at all at these times.

[ollygd]

I have been thinking about setting up a BBS again myself. I had so much fun back in the 90's with those things. I attempted to set one up on my A500+ , but, as i was younger, i didn't have access to the funds to set up a really good system. Plus, the internet was just around the corner.

There still seems to be a great deal of support for them - especially telnet boards. Google the "BBS Corner".

My personal feelings are that you would have lots of success offering a dialup connection. If I were to launch one, I may foot the bill for a few 0800 lines (you can get them with upto 1000 free minutes these days) The only reason I say this is because I feel the psychology of the "community experience" within BBS's lies in their exclusivity. Distancing yourself from the hoards (i. the internet) is a sure fire way to rebuild a loyal community. 0800 lines deal with the free unlimited access side of things.

The key is offering a good service and a welcoming, local feel. Once problem with todays's BBS's is is that they feel "interneted". People set them up, realise there are not many users, then forget about them. I think this is due to the lack of personal/local feel with telnet. Nobody can bond emotionally to a single board. The internet provides all these days. Lots of activity (mainly from you - the sysop) is necessary - and not necessarily just in the file areas. That said, I wonder if it is possible to set up a board that emails you files selected for download, whilst retaining the old time "dial-up" feel?

Please comment!

P.S I guess this is my first post! I'v have been visiting this site virtually every day since 2003 believe it or not. I have very much enjoyed it so far! I hope it will continue this way.

[dandelion]

ollygd wrote:


The key is offering a good service and a welcoming, local feel. Once problem with todays's BBS's is is that they feel "interneted". People set them up, realise there are not many users, then forget about them. I think this is due to the lack of personal/local feel with telnet. Nobody can bond emotionally to a single board. The internet provides all these days. Lots of activity (mainly from you - the sysop) is necessary - and not necessarily just in the file areas. That said, I wonder if it is possible to set up a board that emails you files selected for download, whilst retaining the old time "dial-up" feel?

Please comment!
.

Absolutely! Completely agree. I've run two Amiga bbs systems in my time. One via dial up (which was an amazing, exciting experience) and one via telnet (which was a little bit dull). I think to REALLY resurrect a BBS and stand out from the hoardes you'd need an 0800 dial up board. This would be something else. I'm going to look into it now!

[dandelion]

My personal feelings are that you would have lots of success offering a dialup connection. If I were to launch one, I may foot the bill for a few 0800 lines (you can get them with upto 1000 free minutes these days) The only reason I say this is because I feel the psychology of the "community experience" within BBS's lies in their exclusivity. Distancing yourself from the hoards (i. the internet) is a sure fire way to rebuild a loyal community. 0800 lines deal with the free unlimited access side of things.

This would be quite pricey though. Looking up one deal running at the moment, you can pay £19.95/month for 1000 minutes. If you limit a session to just 15 minutes that only allows you 66 log-ons per month, or about 2 per day. If you use more than that you're paying 3p/minute, say you double your available minutes to 2000 or 4 15 minute sessions a day you're looking at about £50 a month! It suddenly becomes quite expensive (especially when you add electricity and line rental on top). I suppose one way around it would be to have a 2-line setup. Have one as an 0800 line operational for a restricted time per day (say 8-10pm) which would equate to 3720 minutes based on a 31 day month (but of course you wouldn't have constant calls during that time). On the other line you could have a standard number or even an 0845 number which people could use. I imagine lots of people have "free national call" schemes which would make that equally fine, and if they don't the 0800 line would act as a good way to tempt people/get them interested. Also people would more happily hit the pay number if they're established on the board and can't say get through to the 0800 because it's busy. God, i'm getting excited about this!

[itix]

I have to say I'm little surprised there are people with land lines still... :-P

[ollygd]

@dandelion

Thats darned good thinking. I've seen a 1000 minute 0800 line for 9.95 per month. However, I have yet to establish as to whether there is a charge to forward that call to your local land line. (It was from one of these bulk virtual phone line companies) I'll have to check into it.

I forgot to consider the idea that people have calling plans now. With a single 0800 line, people could get a feel for the board. The sysop could then sell different schemes for using the board at local rates (i.e free local call schemes etc etc) Hell, even mobile plans offer huge minute options now - although i think at around 9600bps mind. That may still be fast enough for ansi. I really like the idea of the board emailing files to the user for them to download. That would do away with the bandwidth issue. I think modern phone plans are more attractive to the user than a BBS subscription to pay for a freephone number. That way they get all their calls free!

I feel it is important to *not* offer telnet as an option. What does everyone think? You just don't feel "welcome" over telnet in my opinion. It would ruin the atmosphere.

I've done some research into modem over VOIP lines (i.e Vonage) Apparently its rather problematic - and not exactly cheap either. Perhaps a few "incoming call only" local lines could compliment the 0845 and 0800 lines. Cuts costs.

I have a feeling this could be a rather exciting subject we have struck on. Perhaps no one realised in the past that the success of these boards was largely to do with the user feeling "physically" connected to the community and not virtually.

Thoughts gentlemen!

[ollygd]

@itix


heheheh! Well, thats a fair point! I wonder if we could instigate a turnaround?

[steve30]

I have to say I'm little surprised there are people with land lines still...

I think we might have problems with things like with making telephone calls if we didn't have a telephone line.

Regarding the BBS, I think it should have nothing to do with the internet at all. I am all for using a modem to connect directly to it (provided that my mum doesn't mind - she is very against me using the telephone line for computers because we have ADSL).

If it will be in the UK I am quite happy to use either a local or national number, but 0800 or 0845 would be better. Maybe it could just use the BBS owner's own telephone number to start with and then move onto 0800 numbers later.

[Ilwrath]

I can't see any possible way a BBS could work with an 800 number.  On the low end, 1000 minutes could be eaten up by just a few callers.  And, if somehow, you manage to catch on, for the high end, it would be just too costly to maintain.  Plus, with an 800 number you'll still get a wide physical area with a very narrow interest demographic.

The key is offering a good service and a welcoming, local feel.

I agree 100%.  Probably the most insightful comment in this thread.

Once problem with todays's BBS's is is that they feel "interneted". People set them up, realise there are not many users, then forget about them. I think this is due to the lack of personal/local feel with telnet.

I disagree.  I don't think the internet is the problem, at all.  Or at least not Telnet or the technology behind the internet.  I have every belief that you could run a KILLER system hooked to the internet.  Dial-up sucked in a lot of ways...

The problem with the internet is in the demographics.  Back when I ran a dial-up BBS, I met and interacted with my neighbors, co-workers, friends, classmates, and jokers and characters of all kinds.   There is also the common thread of most people living within the calling zone.  (only ~40 miles across, or so...)  This huge range of interests and personalities with a fairly minor common thread builds a great community.  

Most internet sites lack this range of interests and personalities.  Each type of site that is created inevitably ends up focusing on a single interest or hobby (sometimes even to the point of turning against its own fringe members who are not "pure" enough -- see Amiga Classic vs. AOS4 vs. Peg, etc).  So what you end up with is a grouping of a very narrow interest and personality type that is scattered widely around the world.  In most cases this DOESN'T build a very great community.  

Now....  In the modern day....  How do you fix this and create a community that can encourage a wide range of views and personalities.  THAT is the real problem.  I don't have the answer to that.  But I know that trying to roll back technology to the bad old days of slow transfers, landlines, and connection-based communications doesn't seem to be a viable answer.

[James]

Nice! Lots of good ideas being thrown around.. I like that

@itix
You are the living proof that we need ratios. Why do you think everything is available for your leeching pleasure on the internet? Because there are still a few dedicated souls out there who take the time to *upload*. If nobody upload files, there are no files to download. I completely disagree with your philosophy. I think it is rather shallow and selfish, and it is one of the reason why there is no sense of community anymore: because people don't contribute.
------------------

About the 800 number. It IS a good idea, but I don't think I'm ready to shell out some of my hard earned cash to setup something that may very well fall flat on its face. I think it has to do with your potential user base. I'm aiming at the Amiga community. And as much as we love thinking we're an army, in reality we're but a small bunch of people scattered all over the globe. The simplest, and free, way to reach everyone is the internet. This forum is a rather brilliant example of that.

I do really agree with the fact that the SysOp needs to be very present, at least at the beginning, to make sure it grows to a point where the BBS community generates its own activity.

The software I chose, Synchronet, offers a lot of expandability. You can access the filebase by FTP, you can access the message boards on the web, it supports IRC, unlimited nodes, pop3, ssh, telnet and of course, dialup. So if the BBS should prove popular, there's quite a number of options for expansion.

Also, this is a very small operation. I'm not trying to make a huge juggernaut of a system. Mostly because I don't think people will flock to it in any case. And I also do plan to continue living normally, so using my own phone line would be rather impractical and mu budget doesn't allow for a second phone line at the moment.

As for the montly plans for an 800 number. These require that ~20$/node be paid each month. There are various reasons why I want to stay away from dialup as much as I can. First and foremost is the cost of setting the hardware and phone lines up. Second, I'd most likely have to make the board users contribute financially every month and this is also a no no to me. I don't want to have a business, I want to have fun with a couple of like-minded people. Furthermore these plans are time-limited. 1000 minutes for 20$ for 30 days. That's roughly 33 minutes per day. So *every* users would have to share that 33 minutes until another 20$line and 20$ modem are brought in. And even then it only makes the BBS freely available one hour each day. It's just not practical unless there is a lot of money involved and a strong community to support it.

I also chose telnet because it's one of the oldest protocols (1968 I think?) still supported. Every OS (well except Vista...heh...good!) has a host of telnet clients available for free. Whereas a dialup will require people buy a modem before being able to log on.

The reason why most telnet BBS feel like "interneted" crap is because they are exactly that. Most of them use the stock menus and configuration. To me, a BBS is like an amiga, it's a little thing thats fun to tweak add personalize. I'm presently in the processing of de-grading the software. I'm editing the java sources to remove the more "modern" stuff that wasn't part of the old BBS scene. There's also a crapload of ansi menus to change if this system is to have a personality all its own.

I do plan to "animate" the BBS though. MOD-making contests, 32 color image contests, Global War toureys... Y'know, try to make it fun so people WANT to contribute to the board. Try to find a recipe that would make users connect 3-4-5 times a day like we used to back then..."just to check if Dude X replied to my message". Im also keepnig the number of nodes low because I do want people to get a "system is full" message once in a while. Remember the time spent in your "Comm" program redialing 87 times in a row until you went "OMG OMG OMG IM IN!!!!!" and then everything inside the BBS seemed so much more exciting? Ahhhh memories

Ok this post is getting way too long. heh.

[InTheSand]

James wrote:
Every OS (well except Vista...heh...good!) has a host of telnet clients available for free. Whereas a dialup will require people buy a modem before being able to log on.

And dialup pretty much excludes anyone from other countries, unless they don't mind paying international call rates!

Plus, having a telnet interface makes it available to people with smartphones and PDAs - text-based telnet traffic over a GPRS connection doesn't eat much into a data allowance after all.

Good luck with it, I'll be keen to connect and have a look around!

 - Ali

[ollygd]

Some very valid points here guys.

I just wondered, if money were no object, do you think dial-up would be an advantage in any way? (Nostalgia etc....?)

I totally agree that a "KILLER" bbs could be created with telnet. As with any board, I think its success is directly proportional to the effort put in my the sysop.

The demographics point is also a good one and absolutely true. There must, however, be a way to gather those communities back together again.

I suppose mentally re-living the experience had me thinking about the whole ritual - modems/comms/huge phone bills etc... Im trying to pin down exactly what made it so exciting and why the internet so abruptly ended it all.

Keeps the ideas coming guys, I've been wanting to get this off my chest and into action for some years now!

@James

Make it happen man! I think I'll follow suit. I have also downloaded synchronet. A great piece of software.

[Piru]

@James

I guess you're new and don't know itix.

Well, some googling would have revealed http://www.lehtoranta.net/ and doing a simple search in aminet would have showed this.

Ratios suck. Plain and simple.