Pointing Fingers get chopped off.

[MarkTime]

So let me get this straight.   You wrote a really long rant.   You realized everyone would not immediately agree with everything you say.   You deleted the rant.
Then you wrote another rant in its place about how people don't immediately agree with everything you say.

hmmmm
WOW

WOW

I've got to digest this, but suddenly the ranting world has opened up a whole new range of possibilities...its as if all these years I've been ranting, I've been blind...blind I tell you......

[heimert]

@PMC
The community is already fragmented. I think that it's way too much bad blood between the two parties to work out their differences. Many people haven't recognised it yet, but  the "damage" is already done.

[MarkTime]

p.s.

you all are completely wrong.  It's the competition between AOS 4, Genesi, and AROS that has saved this community.

Without competition, we have stagnation.

You really think it would have been interesting day after day after day, talking about Amiga, Inc....who for 3 years, just waiting on OS 4, which isn't even in public beta yet?

We needed the other influences, both to light a fire under Amiga, INc. who otherwise wouldn't have cared....and thats a fact, sorry you don't believe it...and also, just to have other products released and things to look at and discuss during this period of inactivity of Amiga, Inc.

Yes, they will introduce OS 4 someday, but thats someday in the future, for the past 3 years, we've mostly had nothing.

And yet the community is thriving.  You may have trouble tolerating other opinions, and you describe healthy debate as 'racism' which shows you know nothing both about healthy debate and about racism.

What we have is good, there will always be strong personalities in the world, if you can't deal with it, you can't deal with life.

<----your always humble servant MarkTime

[cecilia]

talking about what to do and where to go is constructive.

getting mad at people who disagree with you is boring and a waste of time.

if people want to get something done, then go and do it! stop whining.

talk is cheap.

[bloodline]

I have always advocated cooperation between all the "factions".
It is my wish that all AmigaOS compatible systems remain.. well... compatible, in both Software and Hardware.

MOS and AROS have been able to cooperate, and thus our systems should, in theory at least, be compatible to some degree on the same hardware.

But it would have been nice to create an "open" standard from which we can all pool our resources and create one uber system.

Still politics, comercial interests and the need to make huge sums of money abound...  :-(


-Edit- IMHO MarkTime is quite right, MOS and AROS made AInc sit up  and take notice. I remember when they planned to end "AmigaOS" with the Classic line... The others (AROS, MOS and PowerOS) came along and AInc did a U-Turn... not the first or the last mind...

[amigamad]

I want everyone to do well competition and choice are good things . :-)

[jeffimix]

Well, I think it'd be really nice if most software made for Amigic OSes was available for all 3.  They are rather similiar, and it'd promote a lot of healthy competition between the 3 OS developers (although I don't think AROS wants to compete, but to simply be a there and functioning choice) . They are all the Amiga platform to an extent. There will always be the fact that OS A has feature X whereas OS B has feature Y.  That's good, it mean people get to choose what they want. The whole idea behind people buying Apple computers, or purchasing Linux, or even using Amigas, OS/2, Rhapsody or BeOS, is that they get to choose and still have a fully functional system, one that they like. The most fun way of going about computing is not becoming 'The OS of All Time' it's getting several OSes healthy and competing, which is why I always felt that the early nineties, mid/late eighties had it right when it came to computers, relatively powerful and advanced systems (you couldn't make them in a garage) and lots of choice, you'd have full functionality on a number of systems. I really don't care if you support OS4, or MOS, or AROS. They are all nice, I want every one of them to be able to do everything someone would want out of an Operating System.  Let us realize that in the amiga's (the original) current state we are no where. There's no telling if any of the three emerging choices will ever be popular. It's important for the community to work together, making community work available on all the platforms, so that whoever wins, whatever it is called , we'll have an Amiga at the end of day.

[Madgun68]

@zudobug

Recently I got pretty wound up and took part in a rant...

It was good to get it out of my system I guess, but really I wish I hadn't bothered. I don't even know how I managed to get so pissed off in the first place. It's stupid. And the only effect my comments had, if any, was to upset a few people, and that is never my intention.

Try doing what I do in those situations.. I write up a reply, preview it, and then walk away from the computer for a bit. Usually, when I come back to the computer, I've cooled off enough not to want to post anymore.

[PMC]

I have absolutely no problem with competition as competition usually breeds innovation.  However, don't forget that the Amiga market is very small right now, an the in-fighting will put new usuers off.  The problem is that people will be confused between OS4 and MOS, and will decide on another platform.  

There comes a point in a small pond where there simply isn't room for more than one fish.  Both factions, communites etc - call them what you will have their merits and it would be good to see them compliment each other rather than split the fragile Amiga community up.

If only we could have the best of both worlds - the innovation, the HEALTHY competition and the freedom of choice.  Instead we have people trolling and zealots all trying to make a point and they're dragging everyone else down in the process.

[seer]

Did somebody mention T-Shirts ??

@uncharted

You have a point, but consider that most people here are trying to make the best of it here, and are not trolling but keep quiet (There are more unregistered users online at a time then registered).

Some do care for the "one big happy family" we were suppose  to be long long ago (I don't think we were that, it's just more obvious (sp) that we're not, remember that in the Amiga's prime years Internet wasn't as big as it is now).

Some people are here to help others, some are here for their own agenda, some just want help.

So when will the Amiga community get it's dignity back?

Someday when either all Amiga wannabees (Amiga OS4, MorphOS, Aros) have a reasonable userbase and each one going into each direction, or when there are only 2 or less contenders left... Someday we will remeber the Amiga Contending Wars (Amiga OS vs MorphOS with Aros in the middle) just like we remember the Amiga vs ST War and the Amiga vs the console war.

Most people here have grown up. Were in their early teens when they got their first Amiga and are now 30 something.. We've seen the rise and fall of the C= Empire. The demise of the Amiga. We are close to a rebirth, but it has been to long for some to be nice to people who think different...  

If you're not with us, you're against us.. To bad we all want the same thing.. An good Amiga like OS, be it AmigaOS, MorphOs or Aros, but because they have the same goal, they are each others nemesis..

(I've included Aros here as well as it's getting a darn good OS for X86 and might dent the sales of AOS and MOS.. Hell, we waited for years, why not wait for another to get AOS on X86 before AOS5 comes around ?)

[Noogins]

seer wrote:
(I've included Aros here as well as it's getting a darn good OS for X86 and might dent the sales of AOS and MOS.. Hell, we waited for years, why not wait for another to get AOS on X86 before AOS5 comes around ?)

Hmmm, we can only hope :-)

But AROS for more than just x86...

[uncharted]

Wayne wrote:

also because it contained critism of certain members of Genesi, amoungst others it'd probably be deleted without explaination

Do you simply go out of your way to insult me, or does it come naturally?

I'm sorry, can you point to out instances of where I have insulted you?  You make it sound like I'm forever putting you down/shitting on your work here at Amiga.org, which is clearly not the case.

The fact is the other week I confronted a Genesi employee about - well lets not mince words here - being a two faced ####### and behaving like a kiddie to please the crowds.

This thread mysteriously disapeared without any explanation.

[uncharted]

MarkTime wrote:
So let me get this straight.   You wrote a really long rant.   You realized everyone would not immediately agree with everything you say.   You deleted the rant.
Then you wrote another rant in its place about how people don't immediately agree with everything you say.

I never said anything about people dissagreeing with me, I was talking about the fact that most people are too wrapped up in thier own agendas to take notice.  

Really thinking about it this rant's is as useless as the first, nothing is going to change (even though as shown by the postings on here, people want it to).  Sometimes you just need to outlet.

But lets be honest here, you (by your own admission)love trolling anyway, so it doen't make a blind bit of difference.

[seer]

@Marktime

you all are completely wrong. It's the competition between AOS 4, Genesi, and AROS that has saved this community.


Sure, but that's competition between companies, not end users.. This fighting between end users is pointless... Besides, the fighting between the CEO's is pointless as well.. The battle should be fought with good PR (Both sides suck at this) and independed reviews (That reminds me, Wayne ? Your Peg up and running ?)

Some time ago somebody suggested that AOS lovers and MOS lovers would come together during a show and let them fight it out with foam (?) bats ;-).. I still think some of those should have done that..

[uncharted]

cecilia wrote:
talking about what to do and where to go is constructive.

getting mad at people who disagree with you is boring and a waste of time.

if people want to get something done, then go and do it! stop whining.

talk is cheap.

I'd agree with that sentiment, which is why I AM actively involved in community based things, and hopefully will be involved with some more soon.  

The point is at the end of the day is even with everything I can do it still won't change the attitude of the community, only the community itself can do it.  I just posted here because I'm frustrated with that.

[uncharted]

MarkTime wrote:
p.s.

you all are completely wrong.  It's the competition between AOS 4, Genesi, and AROS that has saved this community.

Without competition, we have stagnation.

I agree with this, however that isn't what I'm talking about.  I don't want a single amiga comapany, I want options.  I just don't want my options to behave like children arguing over who has the coolest bike.

In the real world businesses can be competitive without the crap we witness here.