morphos vs amiga os4

[KennyR]

Indeed floppy is far the best and most perfect solution for transfer,
I am so ********* *** ***** tired of swapping harddrives and burning
cds and even emailing myself every time i need any tiny little file,
that floppy support should be there ASAP.

Oh come on, what do you transfer, text files? Of all the MOS owners I know, absolutely none of them is interested in floppy support. To transfer big files you'd need to archive and span, which is even more trouble than burning a CD.

At 1.44MB a disk at 21KB/S (crunch crunch), we view pretty much view the floppy disk the same as the audio tape - dead, dead, DEAD. We simply do not want the MOS developers to waste their time on it when MOS needs so many real things.

[amigamad]

Floppy drives on computers dont have much use on the pc i use it for bios upgrades i could make a cd that boots and has the bios and bios flash software but my board has bios flashing software buit in you hold a key at bootup it can only read from floppy which is a shame.I would prefer to use a usb key or compact flash card as these are very small .on an  amiga you need them otherwise you wont be able to install some software.and floppys dont always last long if they are not looked after. :-)

[Psy]

Oh come on, what do you transfer, text files? Of all the MOS owners I know, absolutely none of them is interested in floppy support. To transfer big files you'd need to archive and span, which is even more trouble than burning a CD.

A directory of a project on my HD : 3 Word files + 11 jpegs + 1 PDF = 464k

Another of directory of the same project:  2 Word files + 15 jpegs + 1 text file + 2 PDFs = 542k

I could put a either onto a 720k disk since each is a part and conatinas everything I need to work on said part or put both on a single 1.44 and still have room and both cases is without compression.

[KennyR]

Well, what use are Word files on a Pegasos? And what's better than the net for transferring jpg? And anyway, it's been a while since I've seen a Word file or a decent quality jpeg below the 1.44MB size.

[Dagon]

So if a classic app in AmigaOS crushes then all the system goes down?

( I mean heavy crush like the ones that crush AmigaOS 3.9, not the crushes that you don`t need to reboot.)

PS: I`m AmigaOS pro

[KennyR]

So if a classic app in AmigaOS crushes then all the system goes down?

( I mean heavy crush like the ones that crush AmigaOS 3.9, not the crushes that you don`t need to reboot.)

Of course. AmigaOS4 is not a memory protected system, and never can be if you want to run Amiga apps on it. Unless you go the sandbox route, that is, which MOS has already done.

[Psy]

Well, what use are Word files on a Pegasos?

Sooner or later someone will port an MS Office compatible office suite like open office.

 And what's better than the net for transferring jpg?

No really the fastest way to transfer jpgs over the net that you don't want other people seeing is e-mail and it gets kinda annoying e-mailing your self over and over again..

And anyway, it's been a while since I've seen a Word file or a decent quality jpeg below the 1.44MB size.

I never ran across  too many single jpegs over a meg that I needed to transfer.

As for Word, what kinda of documents do you run into?  It takes alot to get a word file over 1.44 MB unless it is pages long.

[Hooligan_DCS]

@Psy
But why by email.. why not just network PC to A1 or Pegasos? Better, you can install VNC server on PC and steer it from A1 or Pegasos, no need to even touch the pc ;-)

[downix]

Yhea I agree there are more important things in MorphOS to do but floppy is still the standard for small data transfer (even though devlopment stoped like Sega's 3 inch (yes 3 inch half a inch smaller) drive in the 80's and the 2.88 MB)

Who says it stopped?  Sony and Fuji have developed the HiFD floppy disks/drives out there, holds 200MB+ data on a floppy disk.

[Prod]

As an active developer and computer problem solver and everything, I
need to move around with piles of files, mostly documents and
images. That means a lot of stuff has to go through other peoples
computers, I can not do network as I don't have those other
computers at home, I can not waste my time and money on phonecalls and
Internet to do the job, I have to be able to grab files I need,
when and whereever I may be. My Pegasos is standing right next to my
Amiga, quite embarrasing I have to email between them. LAN and such is
not an option as it is far too expensive to get on Amiga. Serial is
out too as the software for such is total crap and I only have one
monitor, so would have to switch for every mousemove.
If my toilet was made of pure gold things would be different, but many
of us just don't have it like that.

[Psy]

Who says it stopped? Sony and Fuji have developed the HiFD floppy disks/drives out there, holds 200MB+ data on a floppy disk.

Not really the 2.88 MB never caught on thus the PC is stuck at 1.44 MB.  Yes there is stuff like HiFD and superdisk yet for some reason they are not standard on PCs while 1.44 are.

As soon as the industry picks superdisk,HiFD or even Jazz/Zip as a standard and they get put in every new PC then yes I would say 1.44 would be dead.

[Crumb]

@KennyR:

Of course. AmigaOS4 is not a memory protected system, and never can be if you want to run Amiga apps on it. Unless you go the sandbox route, that is, which MOS has already done.

If I remember correctly, their mmu system is used to protect the kernel space, so you may crash apps but you won't be able to write in the kernel space... anyway, in MorphOS as most of OS components run inside the A-Box, you can crash everything in the Abox because the Exec kernel memory zone is not protected as in OS4... at least I have crashed MorphOS and the Q-Box was pretty useless because almost everything runs inside the A-Box...
I'm not stating that one approach is superior to the other, I think that both have their advantages... in the future MorphOS will have more components moved to the Q-Box and it may work better... but if OS4 protects the kernel and some basic drivers from being written by other apps, OS4 should be SLIGHTLY more stable when running 3.x apps. Only SLIGHTLY. Native OS4 apps will probably run using their memory system... let's hope it doesn't break compatibility much. And native Q-Box apps will run in a protected environment too, so new apps for both systems should run pretty stable (that excludes new morphOS apps that uses the A-Box due to the environment they are working...)
Feel free to correct me... but I'm pretty sure that if I recompile a 3.x apps for the A-Box it won't be memory protected... with OS4 the old 3.x app should have memory protection...
Correct me if I'm wrong but don't be too rude ;-)

[zacman]

>anyway, in MorphOS as most of OS components
>run inside the A-Box, you can crash everything
>because the kernel memory zone is not protecte
>as in OS4...

No that's not true.

>at least I have crashed MorphOS

You crashed A-Box but I doubt you crashed the
kernel.

>with OS4 the old 3.x app should have memory
>protection...

No they won't. That's why it is called "optional
memory protection" in OS4.

[Crumb]

@zacman:
sorry, but I edited the mail after posting because I knew that someone would say that...
Almost everything runs in the A-Box, including the A-Box replacement of the Exec that acts as the "kernel" of the A-Box... so if I crash that "kernel" or better said, the exec.library (I know that the MorphOS kernel is Quarx) all the A-Box will crash as in 3.x. And in the current state of MorphOS most of the system components run in the A-Box, so they are affected by that crash, and you end up resetting your computer as in 3.x. With Pure Q-Box apps it shouldn't happen, but with new apps if they run inside the A-Box you will always have an insecure environment (yeah, insecure inside the A-Box, the Q-Box stuff shouldn't freeze, but if you run even some drivers in the A-Box, the Q-Box concept isn't used to the max and you and up with a very fast 3.x system, but little more)

>with OS4 the old 3.x app should have memory
>protection...

No they won't. That's why it is called "optional
memory protection" in OS4.

that's why I said that an app would have memory protection RECOMPILING the app for OS4, not running it directly without modifications.

But this is of course speculation, I can't say much about this until I see the SDK... and depending on how the app is coded you may have to change the sources... we'll have to wait and see.

On the other hand I have to say that although memory protection is an important feature for a new OS, if the apps the user wants to run are well coded he shouldn't need it... in AmigaOS3.x you can see fast if an App is well coded or not :-)