New to the Amiga world and looking for help with 1200!

[s_vampire]

Hello,

I am new to the board and just wanted to say hello and ask for some technical advice!  Despite being a hardcore C64 user in my formative years, I never had an Amiga of any kind.  I have recently rectified that with the purchase of a CD32 and would like to go further and obtain a proper 1200.

My questions revolve around the video output.  I don't intend to buy one of the old monitors, and would prefer to track down a cheap UK unit.  I have two options for video display currently, either my standard LCD monitor or my HDTV.  

As I understand it, the units output SCART or RF, could I just buy a SCART->VGA convertor for the LCD monitor?  

Alternatively, I have an external video scaler for my TV which accepts an RGBHV input which I believe is consistent with SCART.  However, would I have a problem with the signal timings since my TV is NTSC?  As I understand it, the CD32 is fully capable of outputting both NTSC and PAL timings (I've had no trouble with the CD32 on my TV), so is the 1200 the same way since it's the basis for the CD32?

Any information would be greatly appreciated.

Jason

EDIT:  Sorry, I forgot to mention I'm in the USA, in Texas to be exact.

[Ral-Clan]

If you're in Texas, and you plan to use the composite output on that 1200, are you sure your HDTV can deal with a PAL signal?

SCART->VGA convertor->LCD VGA monitor might work, as long as you can find such a convertor in the USA.

[s_vampire]

If you're in Texas, and you plan to use the composite output on that 1200, are you sure your HDTV can deal with a PAL signal?

No, in fact I know it is NTSC only.  However, the CD32 seems to do just fine outputting NTSC (I have the European CD32) and since it's just a reshelled A1200, I thought maybe the A1200 would also output either format?  Or was the CD32 unique in this regard?  Forgive me, I'm a total newb here.

SCART->VGA convertor->LCD VGA monitor might work, as long as you can find such a convertor in the USA

I haven't really looking around, but I'm guessing I'd have to order it from Europe since SCART is basically non-existent in the USA.  I was curious if it would even work.  I just can't spare the space for another monitor if at all possible.

[Matt_H]

A PAL A1200 can be set to NTSC in software, and vice versa.

Quite a lot of (older) Amiga software will only work properly in PAL, however, so a solution that allows you to display both NTSC and PAL will give you the most copatibility. Unfortunately, it will probably involve finding an Amiga monitor or an expensive PAL to NTSC signal converter for your television.

[s_vampire]

A PAL A1200 can be set to NTSC in software, and vice versa.

Quite a lot of (older) Amiga software will only work properly in PAL, however, so a solution that allows you to display both NTSC and PAL will give you the most copatibility. Unfortunately, it will probably involve finding an Amiga monitor or an expensive PAL to NTSC signal converter for your television.

Ah, okay, gotcha.  PAL->NTSC analog convertors have always been bad news from my experience, the only ones worth anything do it internally like the DVD players you can buy that convert the signal before outputting.

Anyway, it sounds like the LCD solution is much more feasible.  My remaining question then is if I will have any trouble converting the PAL SCART signal to a VGA monitor?

[SamuraiCrow]

That would be problematic unless you use the standard VGA mode from AmigaOS.  Normally the solution for hooking up to a VGA monitor is a scan-doubler unless the LCD screen has one built in.  There are some LCD monitors with a built-in scan-doubler.

[s_vampire]

That would be problematic unless you use the standard VGA mode from AmigaOS. Normally the solution for hooking up to a VGA monitor is a scan-doubler unless the LCD screen has one built in. There are some LCD monitors with a built-in scan-doubler.

Ah, okay.  Two questions:

1) What are my options for a scan-doubler for a standard 1200 system (not in a tower)?

2) I realized my LCD monitor (Dell 2001FP) has a composite input.  If I ran the composite from the Amiga into the LCD, would a USA LCD have problems with a PAL signal?

Thanks again everyone for your help, this is most appreciated!

[SamuraiCrow]

USA LCD monitors WOULD have trouble with PAL composite video becuase the color signal is different.  It would generate a monochrome image.

However, since your monitor has a composite input that means it probably DOES have a scan-doubler built in.  If you can find a "silver-box" RGB to VGA adapter it will probably do the job well enough.

[s_vampire]

However, since your monitor has a composite input that means it probably DOES have a scan-doubler built in. If you can find a "silver-box" RGB to VGA adapter it will probably do the job well enough.

That is promising.  Is there any way to test if my monitor has the scan-doubler short of obtaining and plugging in the 1200?  Also, I'm not familiar with the terminology of "silver-box", are you referring to a specific manufacturer or specification?

I did a quick Google and came up with this:

http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=37141&doy=27m2&C=SEO&U=strat15

Would that do the trick?  Maybe I can find a cheaper option and maybe not.

[jbuonacc]

i think what he means is this?



i'm in the same boat as you, just starting out with Amiga 500 and 1200 myself. just bought one of these adapters on a whim, not even sure if it'll work. well, it doesn't yet, but i'm not sure if there's something i'm not doing. all this is for it's own thread, but i think that's what he might be talking about...

[s_vampire]

i'm in the same boat as you, just starting out with Amiga 500 and 1200 myself. just bought one of these adapters on a whim, not even sure if it'll work. well, it doesn't yet, but i'm not sure if there's something i'm not doing. all this is for it's own thread, but i think that's what he might be talking about...

I am very curious to hear how this works out for you.  I am ready to jump into this whole Amiga scene, but I am finding just getting started immensely frustrating.  I don't want to buy a bunch of gear and then have no way to really use it!  I just don't have room for another dedicated monitor just for the Amiga either, not enough space...

[jbuonacc]

we'll see. i played around for a while the other night,but got nowhere. maybe the VGAs that i have won't work. i'm about to bomb the forum here with questions, so we'll see what happens...  :-D

[rockape]

Hi,

That type of Amiga Video to VGA adapter is for the Amiga 4000 computers. Type: Metal cased no 390682-01.

See  http://wonkity.com/~wblock/a4000hard/connvga.html

Quote

"VGA monitors can be connected to the A4000; however, since the special circuitry in the Amiga video output can mistakenly identify a monitor as a genlock and thus cause problems, a special cable or adapter is the best way to hook them up."


Perhaps this would be the one your looking for

See http://amigakit.leamancomputing.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=183&osCsid=305  "Amiga RGB to VGA Monitor Adapter  £12.98"


Also, for more info about the Amiga 1200

See http://www.wonkity.com/~wblock/a1200/a1200.html


Regards, Michael

aka rockape

[da9000]

For the guys wanting to try VGA/LCDs with their Amigas, realize that a "plug converter" (the silver box, or the one from AmigaKit, which by the way is highly recommended place to buy things from; Matthew is an awesome guy and knows his stuff, and can also explain things to you), is going to allow the PINS to be converted from the Amiga RGB to the VGA pin set.

BUT it will not convert the frequencies.

What does this mean?

It means that IF your Amiga is set to a video mode (640x480 Productivity) which emits a 31Khz signal, then YES the signal would work on any VGA/LCD.

But here is the gotcha and problem with that IF:

the Amiga initially (this goes for _all_ Amigas except the A3000, and any Amiga with an appropriateadditional expansion video board, which is not your guys' case, so ignore this for now) will set itself to a standard Amiga video mode which is _ALWAYS_ 15Khz. This means it won't work on a VGA/LCD monitor even with this plug. Once it boots up in to the GUI (Workbench), then it can setup a VGA mode (640x480 Productivity) and then all of a sudden will appear on your VGA/LCD.

The question then becomes a chicken-and-egg: how do you setup the Amiga to a VGA mode when initially it's set to Amiga native.

Two ways:

1) cheap way and annoying, and problematic. Hook up your Amiga (take A1200 for example) via its composite output to any old TV and assuming the Amiga AND the TV is NTSC, you'll get to go into Workbench->Prefs and then setup 640x480 Productivity. Then you loose display when you hit save, coz the TV can't cope with a 31Khz signal. You shutdown your Amiga, plug in your VGA/LCD (with the silver adapter), and voila, it boots into Workbench with a VGA mode. HUGEST problem: almost _all_ cool video games and demos work "outside" of Workbench, which means they use the native Amiga video modes (15Khz), ergo: you won't ever see any of those. So this method is ONLY if you are planning to use the Amiga desktop/GUI and software. Even in this case it's annoying because without a grafix card the desktop resolution and speed is low (and the higher the resolution, the slower the performance)

2) The true solution: you buy a scan-doubler (with flicker fixer hopefully). Like this one: http://www.vesalia.de/e_indivision.htm  (sorry Matthew, I couldn't find it on AmigaKit)  What this little device does is convert the 15Khz signals to 31Khz, and let the 31Khz signals "pass through unchanged". Thus if you hook this up to ANY Amiga (exception A3000 since it has it built-in), you can then display any mode to any VGA/LCD. Costs $100+ and it uber-rare

Welcome to the Amiga world, I hope this helps out and good luck with everything, and ask away!

[mikrucio]

thats weird how your HDTV doesnt do PAL.
REALLY Weird.

here in australia all tv's since like 1995 do PAL & NTSC.
and ALL HDTV's Since inception have done PAL & NTSC.

weird weird.

god if im gonna buy an expensive new HDTV it would want to do both.... crazy.

oh and if you get it to work. IT'S GONNA LOOK HORRID.
dont say i didnt warn you...