GFX cards

[melott]

I'd like to get some opinions on GFX cards.
A few months ago I bought a Retina Z2 card and
also a FireCracker24 card. I wanted better GFX.
(both are for sale by the way). They arn't
supported under Picasso 96.
I have an A3000 w/A3640 & OS3.1.
I upgraded IBrowse a few months ago and am
disappointed with the GFX on my EGS machine.

So.. I'd like some opinions on the best GFX
cards. The 'PROs & CONs' of the cards.

Mel Ott

[xeron]

The best possible card you can put in an A3000 is a Voodoo (3, 4 or 5) using a Mediator 3000 board (see www.elbox.com).

For zorro, its a toss up between the Cybervision 64/3D or the Picasso IV. Both are very good Zorro III boards.

[KennyR]

Or the original CyberVision 64 (non-Virge) which has been said to be better than the 3D one. But the chances of getting one of those are almost nil.

[Ilwrath]

Personally, I recommend the CyberVision 3d/ ScanDoubler combo.

Why?  The integration.

With the scandoubler, you also get a monitor switch built-in.  You can Amiga-M (filp screens) between a CyberGraphX screen and an ECS screen like they were both being generated from the same source.  No manual switches, no hassle.  Nice touch.  Multiple monitor support is also available, if you'd rather go that route...  Plus, you can use a VGA (or better) monitor for all Amiga generated screens, as well.  Probably not a huge selling point, as you can already do that with your 3000, but it was a large seller for my A4000!  

It's also one of the better supported cards, as both CyberGraphX (all versions 2+) and Picasso 96 support it.  

And, finally, it has reasonable performance / price.  Only a few ticks slower than the original (scarce!) CV64, and a lot cheaper than buying a Mediator solution.  (Which I haven't seen a real head-to-head power comparison on non-PPC machines...  Somehow, I'd tend to think that a 680x0 might not give the Mediator/Voodoo combo much of an edge, either...)

Fair disclosure - the only two cards I've ever owned are the CV64-3d and the Retina Z2, and I haven't seen the performance stats on the Mediator/Voodoo on non-PPC.  

I can say the CV64-3d is the best integrated and most finished product I've seen, though.  It drags the RetinaEMU bench out behind the shed and beats it.

[MikesterBrau]

  Although it is expensive even used, the Picasso IV is pretty hard to beat and you get P96 free with OS 3.5 and 3.9.  The PIV (Picasso IV shorthand) is basically  a hub for several other upgrades like a video capture card and sound card and is very well designed.  I had one for years and was very happy.  Of course this is assuming Zorro only, if you get a PCI board your options expand quite a bit but given the limits of the non Towered 3000 case, I still vote for the PIV.  One caveat is that the sound card (Concerto) does not work well with OS 3.9.  Good Luck.   :-D

[xeron]

Somehow, I'd tend to think that a 680x0 might not give the Mediator/Voodoo combo much of an edge, either...)

You are so totally wrong. I've used both a CV64/3D and a Voodoo 3 3000/Mediator 4000 combo in this very Amiga 4000. The voodoo is much faster in general use (noticeably so!), and the fact that it has 4 times the video RAM also makes a huge difference.

3D performance is, of course, in a whole other league. I can run Quake 2 on this even with only a 50Mhz 68060. The CV64/3D was just about OK for DescentW3D ;-)

[Crumb]

for an Amiga3000 the CV64 non 3D would be a far better idea because it includes monitor switcher and the 3k doesn't require a scan doubler

[Ilwrath]

You are so totally wrong.

Hmm...  I stand corrected, then.

and the fact that it has 4 times the video RAM also makes a huge difference.

Really?  I never ran into problems with the 4meg limit on the CV.  What do you use the extra RAM for?  (I imagine the much faster RAMDAC and such is huge, though, and I really hadn't thought about that...)

I can run Quake 2 on this even with only a 50Mhz 68060.

Hmm.  I didn't even know there was one that ran without PPC.  I guess I haven't kept up on the newer PCI solutions so well.  

So, there you have it... if you want performance, the Mediator and a Voodoo is the way to go.  (I still like the integration of the CV better, though.  ;-)  )

[xeron]

Really? I never ran into problems with the 4meg limit on the CV. What do you use the extra RAM for?

Well, i found that with the CV64/3D screens needed to be swapped out to/from fast ram when you go over 2 1024x768 screens. The voodoo usually has 2 or 3 1280x960 screens open here, and occasionally a couple more smaller ones, and rarely needs to swap screens out.

(I imagine the much faster RAMDAC and such is huge, though, and I really hadn't thought about that...)

Yeah. Don't forget that both cards have a 2d blitter to accelerate copies and scrolls, and the voodoo one is much faster. This makes intuition really, REALLY fly.

[CosmoCarl]

I use in my 4000 with retina z2 picasso96 works well graphics as good as pc. using pc monitor

[PMC]

Best thing you could do would be to get yourself a Mediator and a Voodoo card.  Although it's gonna be much more expensive all in than just getting a Cybervision 64, you'll have plenty of future expansion capabilities i.e. Soundblaster cards, reasonably priced ethernet, USB and maybe even Elbox's mythical SharkPPC!

The performance of the Voodoo/Mediator combo is about the best you'll get on classic Amiga.

[xeron]

The problem with the Retina Z2 is that it won't provide screens are large as the CV64/3D, or the PIV. Its also Zorro II, and therefore much slower than those two cards.

As the guy was asking for the "best" cards, I'd certainly recommend a CV64 or PIV over a retina.

[melott]

Hmmm ... all is interesting.....

Just what is the Mediator??
It kinda sounds like something I have been
wondering about.
Since my knowledge of the hardware is really
'Squat' , I have been wondering why someone
hasn't come up with some kind of jumper
board to use the PC slots and PC video cards
and maybe even sound cards.  It seems like
a logical step.
I know everyone is looking sideways at the PC
and wondering why we can't have the GFX like
that. Face it 'HAM' doesn't get it anymore.
As I said ' there must be a reason, but' "What"??

Mel Ott

[alx]

The Mediator is a PCI busboard - in other words, it lets the Amiga use PC hardware like Sound cards and Graphics cards.  It will also allow you to connect the SharkPPC to an Amiga.

[Hooligan_DCS]

A bit late.. but

I have been very satisfied with PicassoIV. I find it much more nicer to use than CV64/3d .. and compared to BVision it has flickerfixed and aga passthrough.
Of course its damn hard to find one these days, and it aint the worlds cheapest gfxcard either.