AMIGA NEEDS YOUR HELP

Starke wrote:
Anyway, Thank you for saying what you did, but I was wondering if you even looked at your whole site, to see if anything was new, since last night wayne, and its not a posting.

Sir,

You need to understand that aside from having been out last week on business travel and returning home with a horrific head cold which kept me off the computer all weekend, I have a full time job and 6 other sites that I run so I can't sit on Amiga.org posting all day.

Im here to stay, and I am going to continue finding ways, I am a positive person, always have been, and anything that I have tried for, well, lets just say Ive always found ways to succeed.

That's fine, but you're still new here, while some of us (myself included) have been here for 15 years or more.  

What you refuse to understand is that when the community (aka what you are referring to as "the market") was still hundreds -- not dozens -- strong, we tried to "fight the good fight" for years before.  We supported Amiga Inc right up until the time they disappeared from the community.  

After years of neglect and indifference from them, most of us have given up on the idea of Amiga Inc or Hyperion actually accomplishing anything any more.  While I personally get along with Bill McEwen and his staff on a personal basis, collectively speaking we've all gotten our hopes raised, then crushed too many times to care any more.  

As such, we're just thankful to have our "classic" systems that we enjoy using and don't really care what "they" think "the future" is any more.

Wayne

[iamaboringperson]

Wayne wrote:

Starke wrote:
Anyway, Thank you for saying what you did, but I was wondering if you even looked at your whole site, to see if anything was new, since last night wayne, and its not a posting.

Sir,

You need to understand that aside from having been out last week on business travel and returning home with a horrific head cold which kept me off the computer all weekend, I have a full time job and 6 other sites that I run so I can't sit on Amiga.org posting all day.

Im here to stay, and I am going to continue finding ways, I am a positive person, always have been, and anything that I have tried for, well, lets just say Ive always found ways to succeed.

That's fine, but you're still new here, while some of us (myself included) have been here for 15 years or more.  

What you refuse to understand is that when the community (aka what you are referring to as "the market") was still hundreds -- not dozens -- strong, we tried to "fight the good fight" for years before.  We supported Amiga Inc right up until the time they disappeared from the community.  

After years of neglect and indifference from them, most of us have given up on the idea of Amiga Inc or Hyperion actually accomplishing anything any more.  While I personally get along with Bill McEwen and his staff on a personal basis, collectively speaking we've all gotten our hopes raised, then crushed too many times to care any more.  

As such, we're just thankful to have our "classic" systems that we enjoy using and don't really care what "they" think "the future" is any more.

Wayne

And might I just add to that: "Get a Pegasos"

iamaboringperson wrote:
And might I just add to that: "Get a Pegasos"

Sorry, you are correct, but for obvious reasons, I will never suggest that to anyone as long as Bill Buck is in any way affiliated or associated with that situation.

While I have respect for the others involved, I don't deal, nor would I recommend anyone dealing with that -- for lack of better, more appropriate yet less-family friendly words -- snake oil salesman any more than I would suggest he buy a "mil-spec A3000" from Doomy.

Wayne

[edit : come to think of it, I'd strongly recommend anyone buy from Doomy before giving a dime to Bill Buck].

[quenthal]

I don't know what is wrong with me, but it is sometimes refreshing to see new users like Starke. Like it is already said, many here have had the same feeling to use common sense and solve things once and for all during late-Commodore/post-Commodore era, being it talks about discussions about potential buyers of Amiga, cpu-architecture after m68k (alpha, ppc, etc.), P5/warpos, P5/P96, pci-busboards, Amiga MMC etc.

Once in a while there are someone like Starke, being it here at a.org or other forums etc., full of energy, maybe not so much knowledge what has happened in the past 10-15 years with Amiga, but still having so fond memories of this platform - this in itself shows something about Amiga (Classic Amiga). Same of course can be seen in other old platforms too.

Same feeling may no longer be possible to achieve for everyone with "modern" Amiga (AOS4, MOS) with current alternatives (Linux, MacOS, even Windows XP/Vista). I'm not sure, but I think that MOS/AOS4 mainly rekindles the old feeling, but not necessarely bring anything new, but I hope I'm wrong. Anyway, I'm more than anxious to get hold of OS4 for my A4000. And this is the only realistic market I see currently for Amiga/amiga-like systems - new hw/sw once in a while to keep us busy fiddling with our Amigas and something cheap/free, nice stuff (being it something like Minimig, PPC-mb with AmigaOS/MOS with clear roots without being just a base for ports from *nix, AmigaForever) for future Starkes to give them that feeling back.

@quenthal,

Please don't misunderstand.  I have nothing against Starke or anyone else for their enthusiasm.  It is rather refreshing (though some might think it amusing) but it's rather hard to share in the enthusiasm for a lot of us.  Where I believe he's going wrong is the "cheerleader approach" (not meant derogatorily) and the lack of proper perspective of history.  

I mean it's not like ALL of us at one point weren't just as enthusiastic, but how many shards can a dream be broken into before it's just a memory?

The realistic issue is this.  While I'm sure we would ALL love to see Amiga Inc suddenly hit the lottery and be able to spend the billion dollars minimally necessary to create a competitive platform, it just isn't realistic.

Even if they had hardware, and software which wasn't simply a port of a 1994 level OS, there is no third-party software development, there is no market to buy it.  Those three things (product, development, market) are crucial and even if Amiga Inc/Hyperion had two out of those three, it just doesn't stand a chance against Apple or Microsoft.

Think about it.  The Pegasos exists, it is available, it has an OS (one out of the three) but it has no market, and only negligible software development (no commercial development of notable scale.  This is why Buck has pretty much (thank God) given up on splitting the "Amiga market" and is leaning towards the *nix, BSD crowd.

Trouble with both solutions is that they are slow, antiquated, overpriced, and based on now antique hardware.

I think Starke does have the standard point that AmigaOS should be available for commodity hardware (PC) but I made that recommendation over 5 years ago and was booted off of their little mailing list for it.

He should be investigating and supporting AROS.

Wayne

[Homer]

Wayne: You have put into words what I was unable to do. Absolutely spot on. Now I know why I keep coming back here  :lol:
Lets all have a :pint:

[quenthal]

@wayne:

Please don't misunderstand.  I have nothing against Starke or anyone else for their enthusiasm.  It is rather refreshing (though some might think it amusing) but it's rather hard to share in the enthusiasm for a lot of us.  Where I believe he's going wrong is the "cheerleader approach" (not meant derogatorily) and the lack of proper perspective of history

Even if they had hardware, and software which wasn't simply a port of a 1994 level OS, there is no third-party software development, there is no market to buy it. Those three things (product, development, market) are crucial and even if Amiga Inc/Hyperion had two out of those three, it just doesn't stand a chance against Apple or Microsoft.

Yes, you put it out much clearer, just what I tried to say :-). I couldn't agree more in every point you made.  

I mean it's not like ALL of us at one point weren't just as enthusiastic, but how many shards can a dream be broken into before it's just a memory?

Good and valid question (has been infact quite long now... :-( ). Those, who still have some shards left to be broken, are probably hobbyists like me who wan't new upgrades, maybe even with "Amiga" logo on it (like OS4) for old machines and those who bought Pegasos/A1. Maybe it is no longer possible to break that to smaller shards if you belong to that first group, since it is neither dream or memory - more like a hobby. For the other part of this group, I don't know. Those, who belong to that "memory group", either by changing platform in early 90s or later while waiting, could probably get intrested in some nice C64DTV-like product, being it either software-pack or small periphral to connect existing PC/console/tv.

There probably is some intrested in completely new hardware too in every group, but I don't think the reason for them to get that new hardware&os or even AmigaOS for x86 could be anything else that some memery/feeling they have towards (classic) Amiga. Anything else, and they probably ain't realistic - atleast for now.

For me, my A4000 currently is something that I spend time fixing/tweaking out just like playing some new PC/Wii-game, or making my htpc/ht better. I'm not trying to replace any of my "serious" laptops/desktop with it, it just is something that gives pleasure as it is. That doesn't mean that I wouldn't buy OS4 for it the day it is on sale, even now I'm hungry for every demoscene release, 3rd party patch & new utilities released for 3.x  

[Gwion]

I think amiga should send out Live iso's of OS4 to websites so then can get a taste of OS4 and at the end of the trial of OS4 then there should be a popup showing what you have to purchase and the price try to make as cheap as posible.The trial shouls run on Intel and PPC.But the actuall OS4 run on the amigaone or classics with PPC. :-D

[Mucker]

They need to get units on shelves, there aren`t any main street shops you can walk into, and ask a salesman about os4.0, let alone see or touch a migy.

Most peole you speek to think amiga died with os3.0.

Amiga 1 light could be the answer, get it on the shelves, in the likes of currys, commet and pc world. A nice big surround with advertising. In the stlye of sony or xbox.

Only a few of the major stores at first, then increase as sales pick up.
 :-D

[alewis]

But who would buy it?

No one. Literally. Does it run PC software? Nope, then thats that crowd gone. Does it run PS/xbox/ninetendo games? Nope, no interest there then.

"so what", asks the potential chain-store buyer, "does it run?" Answer: nothing, because there is practically no software in existence for it. So the retailers will not stock it. Even if they did, the customer will ask the same question, get the same answers, and walk away.

A new Amiga is a pipedream. The market is limited to those of us who have an Amiga (real or emulated) and perhaps those with fond memories who could be tempted back. At best a few thousand, probably only a few hundred, and out of that how many would actually pay cash for one...

IMHO the best anyone can do with the licence is make a limited production run of "nice" classic Amigas, such as 68030 based A1200's, A4000Ts, and some "desirable" hardware such as 060 and PPC cards, Picasso IV cards, and scandoubler/flicker-fixers, for those who still need/dream/lust over such equipment.

Even that limited Amiga market shrinks year on year.

Or perhaps a Amiga PCI card, cram as much as possible on a PCI card (030/040/060/PPC, custom chipset, CIAs and floppy, video-out, and a gfx chipset such as Cybervision or Picasso IV used so the cgx/p96 support is in place). Would it sell, probably in small numbers. It can be done, look at minimig et al. Provided it runs classic OS, so the apps, games, etc are all in place.

[Mucker]

in a nut shell, it would run amiga de, which in turn does "as tested" will run on pc`s playstations 2 and 3, also implimented, in the new nintendo Wii.

Just ask me old mucka sven harvey of steller dreams.

And rights the weekly amiga article in micro mart.

you would do well to lern my young padowan. :rtfm:

[Mucker]

Who would pay, hmmm i did, I payed £1,400 to be exact, for my A1G4, and works lovely, ta thank you very much.

Using it this very second.

And i can access every thing you can on the web, along with classic os sofware, modern os software, not to mention, top hat and Linux.

Oh does that mean my A1 runs pc stuff as well, funny thing that.

[alewis]

Keep dreaming. Aint going to happen.

How many people bought an A1 etc... ie any "amiga" hardware platform post Escom...  millions? hundreds of thousands? tens of thousands? Obviously they flew off the shelves in such quantities that the manufacturers are still in business today, developing new hardware, upgrades, etc etc.

or not. As is the case.

[odin]

So what if it runs AmigaDE? That whole project was dead the minute A Inc. thought it up.

[Mucker]

Are you the proud owner of a one of those pc things that hangs, or keeps crashing? or gets millions of bugs per year by any chance are ya? :crazy:

[odin]

Yep, and I can't remember the last time my PC crashed. My A4000 is a lot more unstable.