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Author Topic: I long for a decent OS.  (Read 16022 times)

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Offline downward_sTopic starter

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I long for a decent OS.
« on: January 02, 2007, 07:01:36 PM »
I need to vent.

Do you think people would be very happy if, when you turned on a tap it took a minute to give you any water? Or if, when you turned on the microwave, it locked you out for 30 seconds before heating your food?

Why is it that now, even with the best hardware money can buy, we are still expected to wait so long before we can actually do what we want to do? Boot times on Windows, Mac and Linux are still, when you think about it, unbearable.

I spend a lot of my time writing, and I will ocasionally get ideas in my head, and in a moment's notice I'll want to type them out and store them.  I continually curse my PCs for taking so long just to let me access a text editor and type in a paragraph of text. The act of turning on the PC can sometimes take longer than the work I want to do. By the time I've got a blinking cursor, I've forgotten half of the inspiration.

The same is true when all I want to do is copy a file, or download a photo from the camera. The amount of interaction from me is minimal and yet the job still takes forever.

I long for an OS that can boot up instantly, like switching on a TV or turning on a light.

And why not? I remember when my A1200 with a 85mb hard disk would boot up and straight into a text editor in about five seconds. Simple, functional, and extremely friendly. People may snort, but it's how the tool fits the job that counts.

Of course, pen and paper will outclass even a 10Ghz machine, but if you're a disorganised soul like me, it doesn't work that way ;). Until my A1200 broke, I used to type everything and it was a luxury. Now even with the most modern machine, it's an utter pain.

Will we ever see proper 'tools' like this again in computing? Or are we destined to suffer slow, clunky, eye-candy filled, advert ridden, patronising systems which are constantly under threat of being taken over by every bit of software you download?

I'm sure that even when we do get to the stage where processors are many thousands of times faster, and hard disks are replaced with some sort of fast solid state NVRAM, the product (OS) will still be filled with so much extraneous trash that there will be no performance difference from what we use today. The companies of course, will be richer and fatter.

David
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Offline Piru

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Re: I long for a decent OS.
« Reply #1 on: January 02, 2007, 07:02:48 PM »
Suspend instead of powering off.
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Offline downward_sTopic starter

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Re: I long for a decent OS.
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2007, 07:04:38 PM »
On a laptop/battery that may see days between use?

It's a solution, but it's inelegant.
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Offline Homer

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Re: I long for a decent OS.
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2007, 07:16:09 PM »
downward_s: sounds like u need a replacement A1200  :lol:
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Offline giZmo350

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Re: I long for a decent OS.
« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2007, 07:27:51 PM »
That's why I still keep a DOS machine around with Wordstar on it.   :-D

Plus, the old DOS VGA games are still great.  

BTW, I also just got a NIB latest version of Word Perfect for Amiga. Havn't installed it yet though 'cause I'm still trying to find a HD for my A500! I may be a while on that one.  :roll:
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Offline stopthegop

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Re: I long for a decent OS.
« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2007, 07:33:12 PM »
What downward_s says is true:  somewhere along the way the all-important K.I.S.S. principle has been wholely ignored if not outright banished by computer (especially software) makers.  
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Offline Piru

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Re: I long for a decent OS.
« Reply #6 on: January 02, 2007, 07:36:42 PM »
Quote
On a laptop/battery that may see days between use?

Yes. Why not?
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Offline EDanaII

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Re: I long for a decent OS.
« Reply #7 on: January 02, 2007, 07:45:29 PM »
Quote
Yes. Why not?


Because, many's the time, after putting my machine in sleep or suspend that I couldn't get it too wake up. The end result: powering up anyway.

You'll forgive some of us if we don't trust that particular function in so called modern PCs. :-)

Ed.
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Ed.
 

Offline GreggBz

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Re: I long for a decent OS.
« Reply #8 on: January 02, 2007, 08:11:50 PM »
Quote

EDanaII wrote:
Quote
Yes. Why not?


Because, many's the time, after putting my machine in sleep or suspend that I couldn't get it too wake up. The end result: powering up anyway.

You'll forgive some of us if we don't trust that particular function in so called modern PCs. :-)

Ed.


Blame ACPI, not the OS. It's a horrible, bloated specification.

Suspend may or may not work day in day out, dependent on both your OS and your hardware. Neither Linux nor Windows does a good job accommodating all hardware in my experience.

I generally leave my desktop on. It boots XP pretty fast though. Unnecessary startup services / programs are a huge percentage of startup time. BIOS and ACPI could be refined I suppose, but I think that's wishful thinking. You'd get better results endeavoring to clean up your XP/Linux and using suspend/resume if possible.

On the PC as far as word processors, I like AbiWord, it starts up really fast. OpenOffice takes forever, and MS Word, while it starts fast, costs $349USD.

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Offline Fraccy

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Re: I long for a decent OS.
« Reply #9 on: January 02, 2007, 08:11:58 PM »
Apart from Amiga, three other solutions:

Psion 5mx - instantly on/off, and a comprehensive word processor all ready to go (plus a whole lot more!)

Linux - roll your own. My Gentoo-derived system boots in about 15s.

Zeta/BeOS - much faster than OSX, Windows or standard Linux.

Another experiment: starting a highly optimised Linux from hibernation, with an image of the state of the system just after boot-up. I think that could be fast - EXTREMELY fast!
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Offline InTheSand

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Re: I long for a decent OS.
« Reply #10 on: January 02, 2007, 08:20:29 PM »
Quote
Fraccy wrote:
Psion 5mx - instantly on/off, and a comprehensive word processor all ready to go (plus a whole lot more!)


I'll second the Psion Series 5 range! Great size, decent keyboard and lasts for ages on a couple of AA batteries, can't beat it for quick note taking!

Also worth looking for is its rarer (and therefore more expensive) brother, the Series 7 or Netbook. 640x480 colour screen, larger keyboard, inbuilt rechargable battery, and similar software to the Series 5.

Both run a very decent OS: Symbian...

 - Ali
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Offline Fraccy

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Re: I long for a decent OS.
« Reply #11 on: January 02, 2007, 08:25:59 PM »
@Ali

Plus the 5mx can be hooked up to the Amiga!

http://www.vapor.com/ncp/

I had a look at the Series 7 and Netbook. Great machines, but they seem a bit heavy... And have to be careful with the Netbook, the later versions run Windows CE rather than Symbian.
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Offline Tomas

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Re: I long for a decent OS.
« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2007, 08:29:48 PM »
Is not just boot times.. A windows/linux pc also seem to lag when you for example try to open something simple as a txt editor, simple mail application or similar. I expect the txt editor to open in a split second after pressing the button, but this just does not happen. Why should i use a modern pc for these tasks when my outdated amiga does the same task in less time? I dont understand why it should be so slow to do something so simple. These delays all add up during a day of usage and will in the end be wasted time... And dont get me started ono the process of shutting down a windows pc...

Just opening Kcalc on my ubuntu amd64 3500+, 1.5gig ram takes around 2 seconds!
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Offline Fraccy

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Re: I long for a decent OS.
« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2007, 08:43:53 PM »
@Tomas

Perhaps because you're running KDE? It's a heavyweight desktop environment; try something lighter such as Fluxbox or even XFCE, and I think you'll find the response time will be significantly better.

Also, console-based applications open a lot faster in X than their GUI equivalents.
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Offline Waccoon

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Re: I long for a decent OS.
« Reply #14 on: January 02, 2007, 08:48:58 PM »
Quote
I long for an OS that can boot up instantly, like switching on a TV or turning on a light.

Some reasearch has been done on stateless OSes (like Coyotos), but nothing is really working in practice, and software for these OSes has to be programmed very differently and carefully, which is probably too much to ask of programmers these days.

Most OSes, even the "quick" ones like BeOS, have long startup times because of all the initialization and verification they have to perform.  You don't want a system to go into an infinite loop if something changes or doesn't start up correctly, and you don't want to start writing data all over the place if a storage volume is unclean or insecure.

Hardware also plays a big part.  Some devices don't respond instantly, cannot be initialized at the same time as others, have to follow certain standards and procedures, etc.  The only way to get an instant-on OS is by redesigning a new architecture from scratch that is not standards-compliant.  That means no hardware choices, high prices, spotty compatibility, and long waits between upgrades.  Custom, embedded hardware doesn't always perform better than PCs, either.  They have their own problems.

I think you'll have to live with sleep mode, or startup times.

My XP machine boots in 15-20 seconds from POST.  I feel sorry for people who use prebuilt systems, like HP.  Long boot times are usually caused by bad hardware implementation, mismatched hardware, or startup bloatware.  I can't honestly say that OSes are the problem, because my system is VERY fast and responsive compared to other machines I've used and/or fixed.

Quote
Blame ACPI, not the OS. It's a horrible, bloated specification.

It's usually non-compliant drivers that cause the problem.  My dad's machine has trouble, but mine works perfectly.

Also, I used to work on PowerMacs that would NEVER wake up from sleep mode, so it's not just an x86-PC problem.
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