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Author Topic: More Power, Scotty!  (Read 7126 times)

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Offline blobranaTopic starter

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More Power, Scotty!
« on: January 01, 2007, 07:01:19 PM »
"It is a mechanical problem that has troubled scientists since Archimedes and the ancient Greeks, but now a Scottish electrician has come up with the answer - and it could help consumers save thousands of pounds in energy bills.
Ian Gilmartin, 60, has invented a mini water wheel capable of supplying enough electricity to power a house - for free.
The contraption is designed to be used in small rivers or streams - ideal for potentially thousands of homes across Britain.
It is the first off-the-shelf water-wheel system that can generate a good supply of electricity from as little as an eight-inch water fall. "

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A portable, water powered computer anyone?

Offline Karlos

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Re: More Power, Scotty!
« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2007, 07:21:48 PM »
We get a lot of rainfall in Manchester but there's a lack of streams for the most part ;-)

As for the various canals, they seem pretty sluggish...
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Offline Vincent

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Re: More Power, Scotty!
« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2007, 09:18:45 PM »
If it can generate enough electricity to powre a house from an 8 inch waterfall, then why not make your own waterfall and use it to power the waterpump of the waterfall itself aswell as the rest of the house?

That'd solve the problem.
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Offline Karlos

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Re: More Power, Scotty!
« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2007, 10:09:29 PM »
Quote

Vincent wrote:
If it can generate enough electricity to powre a house from an 8 inch waterfall, then why not make your own waterfall and use it to power the waterpump of the waterfall itself aswell as the rest of the house?

That'd solve the problem.


That would essentially be perpetual motion, which contravenes the basic laws of thermodynamics. In other words, it wouldn't work ;-)
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Offline Cymric

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Re: More Power, Scotty!
« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2007, 10:20:29 PM »
Don't get your hopes up. I calculated that to obtain a power output of 2 kW at the specified efficiency of 0.7 and a hydrodynamic head of 18 inches (= 0.45 m), you need a water flow rate of 0.65 m^3/s. You can make do with less, as the water not only creates downwards inertia by travelling down 0.45 m, but also has a sizable amount of horizontal intertia too. Using a clever design, you can probably tap some of this energy too without immediately creating a reservoir.

Nevertheless, 0.65 m^3/s is a pretty big stream to have in your back yard. I looked up some flow rates of rivers and then discovered that the river Semme which flows alongside the vacation house of my girlfriend in central France has the right débit. Here's a picture of the Semme at a wider point; you should think of the width at the place of the visible kayak:



Not a big stream, but not exactly small either, and definitely not something we all have in our backyard. The inventor is quite a smart bloke to extract energy from the stream at such a small hydrodynamic head---that is certainly a very clever invention---but it unfortunately won't be a device which will see much use.
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Offline Vincent

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Re: More Power, Scotty!
« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2007, 10:25:26 PM »
Quote

Karlos wrote:
That would essentially be perpetual motion, which contravenes the basic laws of thermodynamics. In other words, it wouldn't work ;-)

Not if the energy was stored before use :-P
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Offline Karlos

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Re: More Power, Scotty!
« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2007, 10:30:27 PM »
And when it is depleted?

Basically you are suggesting using a motor to turn a dynamo which in turn powers the motor (substitute motor for water pump).

If the dynamo is 70% efficient, the whole system loses energy regardless of the motor efficiency, and that's before you take mechanical loss (vibration, sound, frictional heating etc)
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Offline Vincent

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Re: More Power, Scotty!
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2007, 02:36:30 AM »
That'll teach me to try and think whilst being extremely pished :lol:

--edit--
Although, I'm very impressed with the spelling and grammer of my drunk posts :-D

What my brain lacks I must make up for in co-ordinance.
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Offline InTheSand

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Re: More Power, Scotty!
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2007, 03:26:56 AM »
Quote
Karlos wrote:
That would essentially be perpetual motion, which contravenes the basic laws of thermodynamics. In other words, it wouldn't work ;-)


Heh! As a kid, I always wondered why someone didn't make a solar-powered light that could just "power itself"!! Would be a nice way to save energy if it was true!

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Offline motorollin

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Re: More Power, Scotty!
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2007, 02:19:06 PM »
Quote
InTheSand wrote:
Heh! As a kid, I always wondered why someone didn't make a solar-powered light that could just "power itself"!!

I used to think the same thing when I was a kid :-)

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Code: [Select]
10  IT\'S THE FINAL COUNTDOWN
20  FOR C = 1 TO 2
30     DA-NA-NAAAA-NAAAA DA-NA-NA-NA-NAAAA
40     DA-NA-NAAAA-NAAAA DA-NA-NA-NA-NA-NA-NAAAAA
50  NEXT C
60  NA-NA-NAAAA
70  NA-NA NA-NA-NA-NA-NAAAA NAAA-NAAAAAAAAAAA
80  GOTO 10
 

Offline Karlos

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Re: More Power, Scotty!
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2007, 08:44:37 PM »
The currents running through superconducting magnets come the closest to perpetual motion as you'll realistically get. Even they need to be "topped up" and you have to expend energy to maintain the conditions required for the superconductivity...
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Offline X-ray

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Re: More Power, Scotty!
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2007, 09:05:40 PM »
Ja, there is no such thing as a free MRI scan  :-P
 

Offline X-ray

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Re: More Power, Scotty!
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2007, 09:09:45 PM »
The solar-powerd light exists:

http://www.solareagle.com/sunmate_flash.html
 

Offline NoFastMem

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Re: More Power, Scotty!
« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2007, 01:54:49 AM »
Quote

X-ray wrote:
The solar-powerd light exists:

http://www.solareagle.com/sunmate_flash.html


I think the "solar-powered light" in question was a hypothetical device which powered itself forever using its own light output.
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Offline X-ray

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Re: More Power, Scotty!
« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2007, 03:03:09 AM »
Doh!
I misread that one, yessir.