Amiga.org Vs Amigaworld.net........Give us your views!

[TheMagicM]

I think that if there are rules in a channel and one rule is not to re-post what is said in the channel, then its best to abide by those rules.  

But if that irc channel doesnt have any such rule then its fair game.  

[Paradox]

No problem man....

Lets talk on IRC now!

[Hans_]

DonnyEMU wrote:
The problem is, I am used to sites in the USA that allow for totally free speech and I realize that when I am in a website that is not in the US I am subject to their rules and regulation of the owner of the site. That fact should be mentioned in big text on the page I believe, as their rules and terms of service would be better understood.

The problem with international sites is that what you and I think is funny can be interpreted as very insulting by someone else. People come from differing cultural backgrounds and perceive things differently. Then there's the cross-country issues. Everyone has a right to be pround of their country, but some people think, for example, that only Americans have that right "because every other country is substandard". This really gets tempers flaring.

BIG NOTE: People from countries other than the USA behave like this too!

Another big one is the "our way is the only right way" attitude, and I've seen that from people from all parts of the world.

I agree with many of your points, but that may be because I come from an ethnically diverse country that celebrates this diversity. I'm used to dealing with people that are different from me. Not everyone is though. I've also found that most people truly believe that they can see the other side of the coin, but that no-one else can see their side.

I'd say that more moderation is required on international sites that national ones because of the more complicated social dynamic involved. Personal freedom is always limited by maintaining public decency and mutual respect. What people think is and isn't acceptable varies from country to country, and even state to state or town to town. It can be difficult to get the balance right when everyone is talking to everyone.

Hans

[redfox]

I visit Amiga.org and Amigaworld.net each day.  I joined Amiga.org on 2002/2/17.  In those days, I had an A2000HD and a pc.  Like a few other people, I got kind of ticked off over the red vs blue stuff and joined Amigaworld.net in March 2003.  However, I didn't abandon Amiga.org and continued to visit here as well.  After I purchased my MicroA1, I posted more often on AW because it was the support site for OS4.

Anyways, I think Wayne runs a great site here and I think DaveyD does as well over there.

---
redfox
 

[bhoggett]

I hate to point out the obvious but all this talk of "national" and "international" sites and local laws influencing moderation in any way is just absolute bunkum, certainly in respect to Amiga forums.

And since we're O/T anyway, you chaps over the pond shouldn't believe everything you read you know. Free speech is doing fine in Europe too. The laws which do govern certain subjects cover incitement to attitudes and actions that are contrary to the laws of the countries concerned.

[Hans_]

@bhogget

What I said had nothing to do with local laws. All I said was that less moderation is necessary if everyone on a particular site shares very similar views. People from a single country tend to have more in common than people from other countries. It just means that people are less likely to misunderstand one another or take offence.

It is an issue. I've seen articles/cartoons from one place reprinted in another, causing uproars because it was inappropriate in the new community. That doesn't mean that the new community is repressive and doesn't value freedom. It's just that their views differ significantly.

And since we're O/T anyway, you chaps over the pond shouldn't believe everything you read you know. Free speech is doing fine in Europe too. The laws which do govern certain subjects cover incitement to attitudes and actions that are contrary to the laws of the countries concerned.

No kidding. BTW, I'm not American and laugh just as hard when I hear people from the USA who think that people outside the USA have no freedom. Those that think such things have probably never been outside the USA. I don't think that's what he meant though.

Hans

@ everyone

From a first-hand perspective, moderation of any kind is difficult if not impossible to do in this "age of political cowardess, erm, I mean correctness".

You guys have no idea how many times a day I get e-mails from people who are offended by someone over what most reasonable people would simply ignore.

While this is off-topic (there is no "AO versus AW", we're not at war), people really have forgotten that they do NOT the inaliable right NOT to be offended.  

Likewise, in this "free Internet world", people assume (badly I'm afraid) that they have the right to say whatever they want, then whine and complain when it offends someone.  The Internet, in a very big way, is contributing to the delinquency of society as the very kids who were just getting into computers when the Internet came into popularity are now becoming parents themselves.  

Trouble is, having not been taught etiquette, debate, and how to responsibly handle free expression, these "kids" who are now becoming parents have no idea how to raise a responsible child.

I sound very old when I say this, but it's nonetheless very true.  Society's ability to co-exist with one another is shifting rapidly into chaos, and it's the ability to get online and slag each other off without fear of reprisal which seems to be at the base of it all.

Now bleep off before I bleep every last one of you bleepers..  

:laughing:

Wayne

[koaftder]

When i was in highschool the family pooled their money to spring for a dual channel isdn line ( around '94 ). $300 a month, and i worked at taco bell just to have the money to pay my part. We setup a lan at the house, etc.

One day dad pops into my room and says, "Whats all this about making bombs and growing mushrooms?" It was at that moment I realised that the old man was sniffing the ether. My net habits changed after that.

I guess someday I'll be just like the old man....

[Hans_]

@Wayne

Well said.

Hans

[Blomberg]

koaftder wrote:
Why on earth should Piru need promission to post something he saw in a public IRC channel?

What gets my goat isn't that someone who sits in a channel pastes something on the affiliated web site, I've pasted stuff from the channel here in the past. It's that someone after not having been on the channel for ages and as such has no real connection with the channel anymore suddenly joins with the specific purpose of gathering dirt on someone only to use it for flaming purposes. I'm not defending Paradox here, frankly he annoys the crap out of me too and isn't far from being banned from the channel if he continues his spamming and pointless crusade against (#)AW.

Just because it doesn't say in a formal document signed by the king, prime minister, president and a notary public that you can not do this and that, doesn't mean you can do what you please without regard to others.
The channel has functioned quite well on the limited rules set forth in the channel FAQ and the honour system so far, and as long as people show some common sense and treat people like they treat their friends, everyone can get along and we can continue to stay under the radar and not be involved in the ongoing s..tstorm that is the Amiga community these days.

I guess my point is: We have a cosy little channel without too much trouble. If you want part in that, feel free to join, if not, stay the f..k out or we will throw you out.

[hooligan]

About the irc-snipper pasted.. are some of you guys serious? :-)  Any idea how many (tens of) thousands of lines are cut and pasted back and forth irc and sites weekly? :-)

[MarkTime]

I would have to say my favorite website is the now defunct Amiga Web Directory, but Amiga.org is the best Amiga website around, and no fault of anyone here that it doesn't exist in those heady days of AWD...one thing I loved about AWD was the links to all those dealers and companies...things that just don't exist anymore.

When AW.net was founded it was in truth a reaction to the negativity at amiga.org.

The only problem is, that the negativity was entirely warranted...

Still the AW.net folks had a point of their own that was valid, if you feel that way (negative about Amiga), then why be an 'amigan'.  At one time, I thought it was to make this scene better, by being less susceptable to the constant scammings of the remaining amiga companies.

But that was one blip in time, when such logic was valid.  The truth is, if you aren't a mindless fanboy, then why stick around.... in the end maybe aw.net had a point.  There isn't any clever way to stick around and say its for some valid purpose.

In the end, I still like amiga.org the best though.  We (well I said 'we' I still have an account, after all)...we are just friends, who share a common experience.  Once upon a time we loved the amiga...I'm rather glad the most delusional among us are at another website.   But we are only marginally less delusional so I won't judge.

 

[MarkTime]

I sound very old when I say this, but it's nonetheless very true.  Society's ability to co-exist with one another is shifting rapidly into chaos, and it's the ability to get online and slag each other off without fear of reprisal which seems to be at the base of it all

Yes, I agree.  You do sound very old when you say that.  It's pretty much what every older generation says about the next.  Just copy and paste.  

But I love to argue with you, and why, you were making a point.  And you are right, internet is changing society.   One way this is obvious is in language trends.  Most smaller languages (less than 100,000 speakers) are dying at an incredible pace.  Only the largest languages...English, Spanish, Chinese...and about 5 others, I won't name them all, are hanging on.  And I attribute this to a smaller world...people don't live in isolation as much, and children tend to adopt the dominate language when given a choice, and English, being the codepage that all our computers have, is the biggest benefactor of technologies progress.

I know this is all boring to us internet users, and quick I better make a joke or flash a picture of a naked woman, because I'm losing the audience with this crap....

but, if someone were to guess the future, a future, with fewer languages, is one of the biggest things to happen to humanity in thousands of years, if you ask me.  I know a lot of English speakers, think this trend is great.

But it will be like killing off French in Lousianna (or Hawaiian in Hawaii).  It sounded great until after it was successful.  Then the legislature went back and adopted acadian as an official language.  (and similarly in Hawaii, they set up Hawaiian immerson schools to try to save the language from extinction) Suddenly states realized they had been benefiting from diversity...being a cookie cutter image of every other state does nothing for tourism.

And as a student of language...thinking is different in different languages...different types of thinking can be good for comparison purposes.  Still, good or bad, the world is going to march forward and change.

All we can do, is think what we can do, to influence the direction of change, for the better.

[adz]

Worst thread EVER!!!!

[pixie]

So say, imagine that someone said on IRC that he had screwed someone else's and how you shouldn't say it 'cause of netiquette?

If what one copies isn't a lie I don't know why shouldn't one be allowed to copy it, even further when in context...

Just because it doesn't say in a formal document signed by the king, prime minister, president and a notary public that you can not do this and that, doesn't mean you can do what you please without regard to others.

It's simple, when you write it down express that you don't want it quoted, although being in a public channel might not be the best place to do it, it's a question of intelligence after all, if you don't want others to use your words against you you should pick those to whom you say them

[Roj]

Likewise, in this "free Internet world", people assume (badly I'm afraid) that they have the right to say whatever they want, then whine and complain when it offends someone. The Internet, in a very big way, is contributing to the delinquency of society as the very kids who were just getting into computers when the Internet came into popularity are now becoming parents themselves.

Trouble is, having not been taught etiquette, debate, and how to responsibly handle free expression, these "kids" who are now becoming parents have no idea how to raise a responsible child.

I sound very old when I say this, but it's nonetheless very true. Society's ability to co-exist with one another is shifting rapidly into chaos, and it's the ability to get online and slag each other off without fear of reprisal which seems to be at the base of it all.

(continuing off-topic)

This is good stuff, and I agree with nearly everything you've said, Wayne, but I don't think just the ability to verbally hammer others without reprisal is the cause. I'm sure the real cause runs much deeper and is topic for a different forum. There are still many things that are perfectly legal, yet remain socially unacceptable. We're getting to the point in our society where our governments feel it necessary to instate laws that cover every little corner of life because people just can't straighten up and fly right on their own.