OpenSource for Amiga.

[bloodline]

1) A JIT 68k emulation for starters. AROS can only run 68k apps on 68k.

Ok this is one we don't have any real plans for, but we have made sure it can be added is so desired, and the hardware is capable.

2) Unified input system. AmigaInput looks really good.

I think our Prefs system is certainly over a very high standard.

3) Resource tracking for memory, message ports, messages, and semaphores

Yup, AROS has RT.

4) Unified MMU interface (difficult to implement for a system with multiple CPU targets.)

Difficult one, as we have had many disscusions as to how this is best done, and since there are so many different types of MMU, an mmu.library has been considered.

5) Limited memory protection. Protection for critical memory areas; Kernel memory areas, all code areas, unused memory.

MP has been talked to death,,, we can add limited MP (as you mention) with realative ease, but old APPs won't like it or care about it, which totally defetes the point. And limited MP is only one step away from useless.

6) WarpUp emulation

Not applicable. This has never been a goal, no doubt, on a PPC it could be easy, very easy to write a warpos.library.

7) Symmetric Multi-Processing (SMP): support for multiple CPU's

Yup, much has be talked about. And is certainly planned.

Multithreading

Hello, this is an AmigaOS clone :-D Of course you can multithread :-)

9) New library model with dynamic interfaces depending on the methods used to invoke the library by the application

We have decided to stick with the original AmigaOS library interface (it's smaller, faster and is just as flexable imho), but Fabio has plans to improve it... I personally don't think we need it improved (each to their own)

10) Fully virtualised address space

No, I don't think that is a planned feature, though I remember the PCI guys talking about something to do with this...

11) 3D drivers (Warp3D followed by Warp3D Nova)

Of course 3D drivers are being planned, though AROS has chosen OpenGl rather than Warp3D

12) The application library (something that should have been there since at least 2.x)

I'm not sure what you mean... I'm sure AROS has an equivilent.

13) Roadshow (although I understand other Amiga-like OS's will get this later)

Roadshow? if it can be compiled for AmigaOS 3.1, it can be compiled for AROS.

14) Mount Rainier support

I have no Idea what that is, see comment 13

15) AmiDock. I was never a big fan of Docks, but AmiDock in 3.9 won me over. 4.0 looks great, and from what I hear will be quite well integrated with the OS (for example application management through application.library)

see above comments.


This is correct to the best of my knowledge   :-D

[xeron]

1) A JIT 68k emulation for starters. AROS can only run 68k apps on 68k.

Ok this is one we don't have any real plans for, but we have made sure it can be added is so desired, and the hardware is capable.

So AROS won't have it this year then? (which was my point). This is the big one, the main fundamental reason why AROS isn't the best contender for the continuation of the *official AmigaOS*; you can't run Amiga apps on it without recompilation, except on 68k. Nobody thinks 68k is the future. :-D

Can you imagine the confusion if AROS became the official AmigaOS? New users getting a new AmigaOS machine, downloading software from the internet "for the Amiga", only to find they can't run it because AmigaOS doesn't run 68k apps? And this would be 99.999999999% of the software out there!

2) Unified input system. AmigaInput looks really good.

I think our Prefs system is certainly over a very high standard.

"Unified input system" has nothing to do with the preferences system. I suggest you read the CAM article that has since been made public. (its on os.amiga.com).

3) Resource tracking for memory, message ports, messages, and semaphores
Yup, AROS has RT.

Nice

4) Unified MMU interface (difficult to implement for a system with multiple CPU targets.)
Difficult one, as we have had many disscusions as to how this is best done, and since there are so many different types of MMU, an mmu.library has been considered.

But it won't have one this year?

5) Limited memory protection. Protection for critical memory areas; Kernel memory areas, all code areas, unused memory.

MP has been talked to death,,, we can add limited MP (as you mention) with realative ease, but old APPs won't like it or care about it, which totally defetes the point. And limited MP is only one step away from useless.

Memory trashing is a common cause of crashes on the Amiga. Limited MP won't break existing apps (since it doesn't limit memory on a per-task basis for legacy apps), but it will help stability. Admittedly, OS4's intelligent stack management will have a much bigger impact on that stability, but even so. Laying the foundations and all that.

6) WarpUp emulation
Not applicable. This has never been a goal, no doubt, on a PPC it could be easy, very easy to write a warpos.library.

Indeed. Its still a plus point for OS4, and something I want to see.

7) Symmetric Multi-Processing (SMP): support for multiple CPU's

Yup, much has be talked about. And is certainly planned.

Will it have it this year?

Multithreading

Hello, this is an AmigaOS clone :-D Of course you can multithread :-)

AmigaOS has never had proper multithreading (remember: multithreading is not multitasking). Therefore your quote is meaningless.

10) Fully virtualised address space

No, I don't think that is a planned feature, though I remember the PCI guys talking about something to do with this...

Its a very good idea; and very doable now that AmigaOS is migrating to another architecture and keeping JIT for legacy applications.

11) 3D drivers (Warp3D followed by Warp3D Nova)

Of course 3D drivers are being planned, though AROS has chosen OpenGl rather than Warp3D

OK. If they have them this year, I'll concede that point.

12) The application library (something that should have been there since at least 2.x)

I'm not sure what you mean... I'm sure AROS has an equivilent.

I'd ask the developers about that

13) Roadshow (although I understand other Amiga-like OS's will get this later)

Roadshow? if it can be compiled for AmigaOS 3.1, it can be compiled for AROS.

Yep. I'm sure AROS will get Roadshow. In fact, I'll concede this isn't one of the reasons OS4 is a better choice to continue the official AmigaOS.

14) Mount Rainier support

I have no Idea what that is, see comment 13

OK, well, its a good thing to have.

This is correct to the best of my knowledge   :-D

Great. I'm not contesting that AROS is, or will be brilliant. I'm confident that if it continues as it has so far, it will be fantastic. I'm looking forward to running it myself.

My point is that AmigaOS4, IF it comes out this year and IF it lives up to its featurelist is a better choice for the official AmigaOS for the reasons above, simply because it should, in theory, get those features out sooner rather than later.

So, really, I think AROS should stay called AROS, AmigaOS4 should stay as the next AmigaOS.

Anyway, this is all hypothetical until either AROS matures enough to be used as a main operating system, or OS4 arrives.

Doubtless many will call me hopelessly optimistic, but I like to think the latter will happen first  :-D

[Kronos]

@Tickly

Yes, all that is in the feature list for OS4, but
if and when all that will be actually included
is another question.

Latest quotes from Hyperion suggested that both
AmigaInput and MP may not make it into the 1st release,
and even if, the 1st isn't really important or
a "biggie", while the 2nd isn't really possible without
breaking lots of older apps.

Same goes for SMP (one that goes beyound what
we had with PuP/WOS). AOS is just not cut out for
stuff like that.

RoadShow does seem to become a fine TCP_stack, but
in the end it is only getting online that counts,
and I'm sure AROS will manage that someday.

Docks are many and plentifull, some even better than
AmiDock (which ain't bad). Get one ported to AROS,
problem solved.

To put it simple : There is NOTHING breathtaking
in the OS4-featurelist (or in the MOS one), these
list just tell what a OS needs as absloute minimum
these days.

[xeron]

Kronos wrote:
To put it simple : There is NOTHING breathtaking
in the OS4-featurelist (or in the MOS one), these
list just tell what a OS needs as absloute minimum
these days.

So? The question was "what features will OS4 have that make it a better choice for the official AmigaOS", *NOT* what features does OS4 have compared to mainstream operating systems.

Besides, protecting the kernel, unallocated RAM, and certain other areas won't break legacy applications, and neither will giving OS4 native apps true memory protection (since the 68k apps can overwrite eachother all they like but not touch native applications). This limited MP isn't spectacularily useful from a legacy point of view, but is clearly a way to introduce proper memory protection for native applications.

The thing that would kill legacy apps is protecting memory on a per-task basis for 68k applications.

[Kronos]

@Tickly

O.k. this is OT, I admit it ;-)

But ...
The reason why you CAN'T have anything worth the
name "memory-protection" on AOS lies within
the AOS-API (message-ports and such), and as
long as these APIs are in use you can't protect
the kernel, and you can't protect native Apps
(which still use that API).

Replacing that API with something MP-friendly
is what the Q-Box in MOS is (planned) for, and
sooner or later Hyperion will also have to introduce
new APIs, but as long as you still run old SW,
you won't be able to fully protect the kernel.
 

[xeron]

OK. I'm going to end this discussion here, since i'm tired of it, and i'm certain that i have put forward a strong case for my original statement about AROS's aptitude for being called the "next official AmigaOS" (in a purely hypothetical world) anyway.

I do not agree with the idea that the sandbox and "jam tomorrow" q-box approach is the best one, or the only way to introduce memory protection, but the relative merits of MOS vs. AmigaOS are so off topic its off scale. It is also a very tired argument.

Lets just agree that all solutions have their merits, the future looks bright, and leave it at that :-D

[bloodline]

Anyway, this is all hypothetical until either AROS matures enough to be used as a main operating system, or OS4 arrives.

This I'll agree with you on. And is a good place to end the disscussion.

Still, I like what Bill and Rachel said :-D

[dammy]

by Rodney on 2003/5/29 10:41:30

If they were to buy it... Who would they buy it from? I was thinking Gateway? Im prolly wrong, but i though Amiga Inc were only licencing their rights to the name?

Who knows who owns it.  It maybe one of their financial backers or even the primary owner, Net Ventures.  IIRC, Peake did say they bought the OS from Gateway, but then again, that was an Amiga Employee speaking at the time, so YMMV.

I dont think BBRV could get AmigaOS, it belongs to Hyperion. Not Amiga Inc. But A inc can buy it from Hyperion according to their contract at a specified time.

Depends on which OS your talking about.  OS/WB .x - 3.1 should be owned by either AI, AI's backers, or maybe GW.  OS 3.5 and OS 3.9 is, more or less depending on what code was pirated for the final releases, owned by H&P.  Hyperion owns their OS and have a license to call it OS4.

If I understand correctly, the AROS devs don't want AOS/WB source code.  I can see their point, WB/AOS is old and outdated.  AROS, OTOH, has a modern design that runs on different platforms.  Now a BoingBall as apart of AROS' logo, OTOH, would be kinda nifty to see, IMO.

Dammy

[bloodline]

Now a BoingBall as apart of AROS' logo, OTOH, would be kinda nifty to see, IMO. ;-)

We'd all love to see the Boing Ball in AROS's logo... but unless Gensi are right, there's not much hope of that :-(

-Edit- Yeah, AROS has no need of the AmigaOS sources, except to speed up a port to the 68K maybe... :-/

[HMetal]

Edited by Argo: Flaming and Off Topic

[bloodline]

Edited by Argo: Reposting Flame

Please don't feed or repost other users flames/b]


That wasn't called for.  :-(

[alx]

@HMetal

I'm assuming that's sarcastic, though you might want to make it a bit more clear.

@All

Amazing how this thread has changed, isn't it :-?

[Vincent]

bloodline wrote:
That wasn't called for.  :-(

IMHO, the post by BBRV wasn't called for.

If he's allowed to have a dig at Amiga Inc/Hyperion, why can't we have a dig at Genesis?

[Blomberg]

bloodline wrote:
That wasn't called for.  :-(

Hmm, so Genesi are allowed to spout crap here, but Amiga Inc. aren't?  :-?

[Argo]

Agreed.

[bloodline]

Hmm, so Genesi are allowed to spout crap here, but Amiga Inc. aren't?  

Genesi made a Hypathetical statment... HMetal
 was was just being nasty.

-Edit- Anyway, I don't want to continue this. It's just flame bait.