OpenSource for Amiga.

[bbrv]

Edited by Argo: Flamebait and Off topic

[xeron]

If we obtain the AmigaOS in the bankruptcy this is what we will do:

I can't believe you posted that sentance in quite that wording, to be honest.

3. Give the AmigaOS to AROS!

You can't "give AmigaOS to AROS". Releasing the source code to the official AmigaOS would infringe all sorts of patents and licenses, or so i'm lead to believe.

[bloodline]

Tickly wrote:

If we obtain the AmigaOS in the bankruptcy this is what we will do:

I can't believe you posted that sentance in quite that wording, to be honest.

3. Give the AmigaOS to AROS!

You can't "give AmigaOS to AROS". Releasing the source code to the official AmigaOS would infringe all sorts of patents and licenses, or so i'm lead to believe.

I think they mean give the AmigaOS name to AROS, so we can call ourselves AmigaOS rather than AROS.

That's rather nice of them, actually. It's good to see some one with both sense and money.
If Gensi were able to buy the Amiga IP, it would be nice to think they would do everything possible to keep the Aros Dev Team together hint hint :-D

[xeron]

Well, its nice to some.

Personally, while I have nothing against AROS, I don't really think it should be the official successor to AmigaOS; having read the AmigaOS4 featurelist, *if* OS4 actually follows it, I think I would much prefer that.

Maybe if AROS copied some of those features, i'd agree  :-D

[bloodline]

Tickly wrote:
Well, its nice to some.

Personally, while I have nothing against AROS, I don't really think it should be the official successor to AmigaOS; having read the AmigaOS4 featurelist, *if* OS4 actually follows it, I think I would much prefer that.

Maybe if AROS copied some of those features, i'd agree  :-D

Which features are those...?

[Rodney]

bloodline wrote:

Tickly wrote:

If we obtain the AmigaOS in the bankruptcy this is what we will do:

I can't believe you posted that sentance in quite that wording, to be honest.

3. Give the AmigaOS to AROS!

You can't "give AmigaOS to AROS". Releasing the source code to the official AmigaOS would infringe all sorts of patents and licenses, or so i'm lead to believe.

I think they mean give the AmigaOS name to AROS, so we can call ourselves AmigaOS rather than AROS.

That's rather nice of them, actually. It's good to see some one with both sense and money.
If Gensi were able to buy the Amiga IP, it would be nice to think they would do everything possible to keep the Aros Dev Team together hint hint :-D

If they were to buy it... Who would they buy it from? I was thinking Gateway? Im prolly wrong, but i though Amiga Inc were only licencing their rights to the name?

But from what BBRV was saying, it actualy sounded as if he was talking about if he got AmigaOs, not the name, cause you cant opensource the name :/

I dont think BBRV could get AmigaOS, it belongs to Hyperion. Not Amiga Inc. But A inc can buy it from Hyperion according to their contract at a specified time.

I dont know why BBRV says this. Maybe he's just talking hypatheticly? In which case, i'll shutup, and enjoy the rest of the thread.

[downix]

Those patents and licenses cover specific areas of AmigaOS, such
things as the font engine and ARexx.  Also the right mouse click
patent.  But these can be removed from the sourceocde before giving to
AROS or any other agent.  I'd note, they had to be removed before
giving it to Hyperion too.  (Or at least I hope they had, or else
Hyperion is in deep doo-doo)

The font engine is a great example.  The original font engine was
licensed, therefore it could not be used in any next-generation Amiga
design, as the license was to Commodore itself.  Both AROS and
Hyperion have a replacement font engine as a result.

Similar things would occur, and be to the benefit of all.

[bloodline]

I dont know why BBRV says this. Maybe he's just talking hypatheticly? In which case, i'll shutup, and enjoy the rest of the thread.

Everything is hypathetical until it's true :-D

Anyway, I am enjoying this thread. It's not often that a Company can make me smile with a few simple words.

Go Bill and Raquel!! :-D

[xeron]

downix wrote:
Those patents and licenses cover specific areas of AmigaOS, such
things as the font engine and ARexx.  Also the right mouse click
patent.

I can't comment on the font engine, but AFAIK, the exact same ARexx binary from 3.x will be included in OS4, and I presume they know what licensing needs to be attained to include this.

As for the right-click patent, I was under the impression this was owned by Gateway, licensed to Amiga, Inc., and sublicensed to Hyperion.

Actually, for the font engine, I presume you are talking about the bullet engine, not the whole Amiga font system, since the bitmap support is very much created to be easily done almost entirely by the Amiga's blitter, and hence would have been done inhouse.

[bloodline]

I can't comment on the font engine, but AFAIK, the exact same ARexx binary from 3.x will be included in OS4, and I presume they know what licensing needs to be attained to include this.

ARexx was third party, that can be relicenced. AROS chose to remake ARexx from scratch, Thus our ARexx is called Regina. And yes it is fully compatible :-)

As for the right-click patent, I was under the impression this was owned by Gateway, licensed to Amiga, Inc., and sublicensed to Hyperion.

The patent runs out at the end of this year IIRC, and notice that all AmigaOS 4.0 screen shots have shown the AROS style Menus (i.e. floating menus).

Actually, for the font engine, I presume you are talking about the bullet engine, not the whole Amiga font system, since the bitmap support is very much created to be easily done almost entirely by the Amiga's blitter, and hence would have been done inhouse.

Who needs that old thing, We have much better systems now.

[xeron]

Who needs that old thing, We have much better systems now.

I know, I was just not sure what was meant by "font engine", is all.

[bloodline]

Tickly wrote:

Who needs that old thing, We have much better systems now.

I know, I was just not sure what was meant by "font engine", is all.

Indeed, anyway what about these so called "Feature" that AOS4 has that AROS doesn't have.

Cheers

[xeron]

Indeed, anyway what about these so called "Feature" that AOS4 has that AROS doesn't have.

First, my understanding of AROS is that its goal is to first provide the functionality of OS3.1 + MUI and only THEN to improve upon it. AOS4 already *is* OS3.1, and they are adding improvements. Has this changed? Has AROS reached its primary objective?

OK, here is a list of features which are currently touted for inclusion in OS4 that I think make it more apt for a continuation of the "official" AmigaOS.

Note, this doesn't stop AROS being a fine product in its own right.

Please correct me if AROS already has any of these, or has them marked to be included any time this year. (i think "this year" is a fair limit, since the majority of people expect OS4 to be delivered this year).

1) A JIT 68k emulation for starters. AROS can only run 68k apps on 68k.
2) Unified input system. AmigaInput looks really good.
3) Resource tracking for memory, message ports, messages, and semaphores
4) Unified MMU interface (difficult to implement for a system with multiple CPU targets.)
5) Limited memory protection. Protection for critical memory areas; Kernel memory areas, all code areas, unused memory.
6) WarpUp emulation
7) Symmetric Multi-Processing (SMP): support for multiple CPU's
Multithreading
9) New library model with dynamic interfaces depending on the methods used to invoke the library by the application
10) Fully virtualised address space
11) 3D drivers (Warp3D followed by Warp3D Nova)
12) The application library (something that should have been there since at least 2.x)
13) Roadshow (although I understand other Amiga-like OS's will get this later)
14) Mount Rainier support
15) AmiDock. I was never a big fan of Docks, but AmiDock in 3.9 won me over. 4.0 looks great, and from what I hear will be quite well integrated with the OS (for example application management through application.library)

Extra disclaimer  :-D
I do like AROS, I appreciate the value of the code that has been contributed from it to MOS and AmigaOS, and I also want to see AROS do well.

Of course, if OS4 doesn't live up to its featurelist, this is all irrelevent anyway  :-D

[xeron]

ARexx was third party, that can be relicenced. AROS chose to remake ARexx from scratch, Thus our ARexx is called Regina. And yes it is fully compatible

Of course it is fully compatible; currently AROS 68k is not being worked on, so all AROS applications require a recompile, and thus will work happily with any ARexx implementation.

The problem is, some AmigaOS programs have old amiga.lib routines actually linked into the binary, which would break. You would notice some problems with AROS 68k, and software that hasn't been recompiled.

This means that Hyperion, or anyone else for that matter, making an AmigaOS binary-compatible operating system would lose some compatibility if they scrapped the current ARexx implementation.

[bloodline]

1) A JIT 68k emulation for starters. AROS can only run 68k apps on 68k.

Ok this is one we don't have any real plans for, but we have made sure it can be added is so desired, and the hardware is capable.

2) Unified input system. AmigaInput looks really good.

I think our Prefs system is certainly over a very high standard.

3) Resource tracking for memory, message ports, messages, and semaphores

Yup, AROS has RT.

4) Unified MMU interface (difficult to implement for a system with multiple CPU targets.)

Difficult one, as we have had many disscusions as to how this is best done, and since there are so many different types of MMU, an mmu.library has been considered.

5) Limited memory protection. Protection for critical memory areas; Kernel memory areas, all code areas, unused memory.

MP has been talked to death,,, we can add limited MP (as you mention) with realative ease, but old APPs won't like it or care about it, which totally defetes the point. And limited MP is only one step away from useless.

6) WarpUp emulation

Not applicable. This has never been a goal, no doubt, on a PPC it could be easy, very easy to write a warpos.library.

7) Symmetric Multi-Processing (SMP): support for multiple CPU's

Yup, much has be talked about. And is certainly planned.

Multithreading

Hello, this is an AmigaOS clone :-D Of course you can multithread :-)

9) New library model with dynamic interfaces depending on the methods used to invoke the library by the application

We have decided to stick with the original AmigaOS library interface (it's smaller, faster and is just as flexable imho), but Fabio has plans to improve it... I personally don't think we need it improved (each to their own)

10) Fully virtualised address space

No, I don't think that is a planned feature, though I remember the PCI guys talking about something to do with this...

11) 3D drivers (Warp3D followed by Warp3D Nova)

Of course 3D drivers are being planned, though AROS has chosen OpenGl rather than Warp3D

12) The application library (something that should have been there since at least 2.x)

I'm not sure what you mean... I'm sure AROS has an equivilent.

13) Roadshow (although I understand other Amiga-like OS's will get this later)

Roadshow? if it can be compiled for AmigaOS 3.1, it can be compiled for AROS.

14) Mount Rainier support

I have no Idea what that is, see comment 13

15) AmiDock. I was never a big fan of Docks, but AmiDock in 3.9 won me over. 4.0 looks great, and from what I hear will be quite well integrated with the OS (for example application management through application.library)

see above comments.


This is correct to the best of my knowledge   :-D