Aussies and Kiwis....

[X-ray]

Okay here is the deal. In about a year or two I am going to move down south, back to the hemisphere of my birth  :-)

I meet the migration requirements of Oz and NZ, and I have the relevant board registrations in both countries.
Sooooo...can you sell me on Oz or NZ? Which is best? Which one has the most Amigas and the hottest chicks  :-P

Okay, in all seriousness, what are the pros and cons in terms of standards of living, crime rates, political stability etc

A curious Saffer wants to know  ;-)

[the_leander]

Biggest one for me is that NZ has far fewer animals that are liable to bite, eat or otherwise mess you up.

Aus has a more diverse economy and is more right wing US leaning then NZ.

Guess it really depends on what you prefer, a mini america or somewhere in terms of climate and political landscape more akin to the UK.

Personally I'd go to NZ, but that's just me  :-)

[Agafaster]

I know a chap whos either moved, or is in the process of moving to NZ from here in the Black Country. says its fantastic, and really cheap! he loved it when I saw him, couldnt wait to get back.

[X-ray]

@ the_leander

Well at the moment here are the factors that affect me:

1) There will be more jobs for me in Australia (even though my profession is a demanded skill in both countries).

2) The pay is going to be better in Australia (but I need to find out if this really matters, because I have to factor in cost of living, property prices and things like that).

3) NZ has better firearms laws (from the perspective of a guy who wants to do a bit of forensic stuff on the side).

4) NZ has a better system for sponsoring relatives. In other words if things go sour for my mother in the US it may be possible for me to sponsor her. I can't do that at all in Australia.

As for the Aussie creepy crawlies: they won't bother me as much, because I have had my share of awkward moments with creepy crawlies in South Africa, including one very tense moment when I had a black mamba right under my nose in Tzaneen. You could also say that my ex (an Australian nurse) was a poisonous creepy crawly, but that is a story for another day. Bottom line is: the creepy crawlies aren't an issue.

[Oliver]

Hi X-Ray,

I'm in Oz, and I think what has been posted here is fairly true.

The politics is dominated by a quite right wing group, though many don't support them, and I believe many more don't understand them.  The majority of Australian'sdon't vote 'for' anything anyway; they only vote 'against' things.  If the economy is fine, the government stays in power, and generally gets away with what it wants to.  Our current opposition is pretty poor.

Creepy crawlies just aren't really an issue for most people.  If you live near right near a lake, or in the bush, you may have some troubles with snakes.  For me, I see them sometimes, but never had any trouble.  If you have young kids, tell them to be careful of spiders.

As far as pay and expenses goes, get some real information before you jump in.  In Perth, the housing prices are nuts.  This is a big issue of you want to settle down.  Remote areas can offer some great pay rates (if it's resources related), but the living costs are very high too, and the lifestyle is not so good.

Right now,  think WA and Queensland are experiencing the strongest economies.  A lot of people are like living in QLD.  It has great beaches (really these can be found all around OZ though), good economy, some areas still quite affordable, and it has more ready access to more cities than one has living in the West.  Perth is a long way from other cities, and is quite small.  A lot of people like that Perth is a fairly quiet and clean.

I've never been to NZ, but everyone says it's a really beautiful country.  I know a lot of people in Perth who have come here from NZ, to work.  They usually say they each country has it's good points.  Many people like to stay in Perth because of the warm climate, and low rainfall.  NZ has fantastic mountain ranges though, and lots of people go nuts for them.  If you live on the east coast of Australia, you can also visit NZ fairly easily.

If you're bringing money from the UK, then it will probably buy more in NZ.  That might be worth thinking about.  Also, the immigration laws in Oz are really horrible (experienced this with my Chinese wife).

If possible, can you have a visit of a few places in each country, and then decide?  Maybe that's too expensive.

All teh best.

Oli

[X-ray]

@ Oliver

Thanks for tthe info. When you say housing prices are nuts in Perth, how much would it cost for a small two bedroom house with a modest garden? And how much deposit do you usually have to put down?

[Oliver]

Hi X,

Of course it varies a lot with conditions, location, etc.  I'm not really in the market (it's all too much for me right now).  Have a look at some of these sites.  You can search around the real estate in Perth.  In my opinion, location is pretty important in Perth, as it is a very spread out city, and many people have to do a lot of driving to get to anywhere they want to be.  This can be a pain in a number of ways.  I like to live quite centrally in the city.  If you want specialty items, like vinyl records, european car parts, or that curry that's made just the way you like it, you won't find them in most suburbs.

If you see a place you're interested in, you could ask me about the suburb.  I may or may not have any useful information, as there are many suburbs I haven't ventured to much (if you don't live there, you may not have any reason to go to many suburbs).

Perth is still a good place to live, though.  Most people like the lifestyle, finding it quite easy going, and relaxed, and there's access to a lot of good leisure activities.  Many people who have travelled a lot, like Perth.  There are good water sports available, most of the year, fresh seafood, etc.  If you have particular hobbies (apart from Amigas), then maybe you could ask me if there is much of a scene here for them (btw, I don't know much about firearm sports).

Good luck with your search.  Hope you find a place that's right for you.

Oli

[odin]

FWIW, I've been one of the gazillion backpackers in Oz and NZ and I hugely preferred the atmosphere and nature of NZ over Oz. Oz just struck me as being too xenophobic and conservative for my liking.

[iamaboringperson]

Man ... there are some ignorant views about Australia!!!!!!


A few years ago there was a common joke about NZ'rs coming here for the dole! Yes, it really was based on the fact that they would come here only to get Australian pensions. (You can actually pretty much freely travel between the two countries. ) Now the rules have changed. NZ'rs must be here for at least two years before they can get dole payments! :lol:


NZ'rs are also likely to come here for employment and business opportunities. Yes, AU really is a better place for living (as opposed to holidaying)


As for spiders and {bleep}... Um, where? Are you going to go camping out in the forrests? LOL


Xenophobic? WTF? Not that I've been to Sydney, but I've heard some pretty {bleep}ty stories about Sydney.

Come to Melbourne, you really wont see any of that ... well, not much. (Not unless you're trying to get in to some of the Chinese restaurants that wont serve Caucasions, or get employed by some of the shops that advertise in Chinese, presumably to discourage non-Chinese? ... but that's another story, and it's the exception rather than the rule)

No, Melbourne's great! You'll rarely hear people complain about the place. It's a consitant international award winner. And people love it. People BRAG about Melbourne!


When discussing Australia, PLEASE keep in mind the sharp contrast between Sydney and Melbourne. They are that VASTLY different that they are almost like two different countries in themselves! I could go on and on about the cultural differences.

I problem I've noticed on many online forums is that people visit Sydney and have too many negative points about what they experienced about its citizens.

TRY ME!BOURNE FIRST!


Politics?

WTF?

I don't mean to get into political arguments on this thread, but politics in AU is fine.

The only odd thing is that federal elections are won by Liberal, state elections by Labor.


The thing is that if you look in the federal governments past, you'll see two governments vastly different way of running the place:

Labor()
{
  HUGE (and LONG TERM) unemployment, AND I MEAN HUGE;
  HIGHEST interest rates over a long term;
  Some of the biggest spending, esp. wasting money.
  Some of the worst and most contraversial desicions ... even contraversial within the party.
  Worst ecconomy Australia ever had.
  Produced the biggest debt ever.
  Employed many people to sit around and do NOTHING in gov. run companies in order to artificially reduce the unemployment rate ... even though the unemployment rate only went up!
}

// On the other hand...


Liberal()
{
  Cleared the debt. we're now in surplus.
  The LOWEST unemployment rate for ... well, decades..
  Interest rates are MUCH lower now.
  The ecconomy has been GROWING. Even when other countries have have shrunk.
  A much better outlook for the country
}

THAT is why even though many people will vote Labor for the states, the will vote Liberal for the federal.

[whabang]

Screw Australia and New Zeeland. Move to Kergeulen!

Broadband is cheaper in AU I'm told.

[odin]

oMgwtfBBq!1 :-o. Somebody's toes have been stepped on it seems.

I've seen big fricking bugs all over the place in Australia, not just while 'camping out in the forrests'.

And the xenophobic bit, well, that was just my impression of the folks I met, mostly in rural areas. Then again, I was only for five months in Australia and it was difficult to break 'free' from the whole backpacking community and get in touch with the 'real' Australia. So my views could very well be skewed.

Oh, and the skiing is better in NZ, which counts for a lot ;-).

[Wilse]

:roflmao:

[X-ray]

Kerguelen  :lol:
I think that would suit Blobzie more than me. Apparently there is not much light pollution out there when stargazing.

Back to Oz vs NZ:

Sooooo....no Kiwis wanting to offer an opinion? Miles? Castellen? InTheSand? Hmmmm?

[Oliver]

iamaboringperson wrote:...
The only odd thing is that federal elections are won by Liberal, state elections by Labor.


The thing is that if you look in the federal governments past, you'll see two governments vastly different way of running the place:

Labor()
{
  HUGE (and LONG TERM) unemployment, AND I MEAN HUGE;
  HIGHEST interest rates over a long term;
  Some of the biggest spending, esp. wasting money.
  Some of the worst and most contraversial desicions ... even contraversial within the party.
  Worst ecconomy Australia ever had.
  Produced the biggest debt ever.
  Employed many people to sit around and do NOTHING in gov. run companies in order to artificially reduce the unemployment rate ... even though the unemployment rate only went up!
}

// On the other hand...


Liberal()
{
  Cleared the debt. we're now in surplus.
  The LOWEST unemployment rate for ... well, decades..
  Interest rates are MUCH lower now.
  The ecconomy has been GROWING. Even when other countries have have shrunk.
  A much better outlook for the country
}

Well, that's a pretty simplistic view, but does sum up part of the situation of the recent history.  Your summary does have some notable ommissions though.

I also like Mebourne a lot.  I haven't been to Sydney, but I can say that Melbourne is very different from Perth, so Sydney could well be very different again.  Melbourne has a MUCH better night life than Perth (this is a sad point about Perth).

What I really don't like about Melbourne is weather, whch frankly is just cr@p compared with Perth.  Far too many dark, overcast days, and too much rain in summer.  May be good for plants, but no fun for me, getting rained on in singlet and shorts, after enjoying a 35 degree sunny morning.

I agree with Odin that remote areas can be very parchial, and certainly there's an element of xenophobia in Oz (feel like a trip to Royston Vasy, anyone?  :-P ).  However, I'm not sure that it's worse than anywhere else.  I can say for a certainty that xenophobia is leveraged for political and commercial advantage here, which I have observed to extend its prevalence throughout the community (just my observation and opinion, but a considered one).  This is one of the issues I have with wing politics and commercial media here.  Of course this is not unique to Oz in any way.  Again, I haven't been to NZ, so don't know what it's like there.

One more thing which probably should be mentioned, is the problem with small scale economies.  In Perth, you have to pay a lot more for specialty items, than in big cities, and big countries, and the accessability is much worse.  To an extent this is also true for Melbourne and Sydney, though not quite as bad.  Extrapolating from this, I guess NZ may be worse in this regard, as it has a smaller, weaker economy.  One example I can offer is of an American thermohygrometer I wanted for a project I was doing.  It was the best suited item for my purposes.  In the States, it cost around $90, and in Oz it cost close to $500 with GST.  The American supplier wouldn't ship it directly, as they had a distributer here.  So, I got a lower spec sensor, for a more reasonable price, but the project had to suffer.

I would also like to hear from some New Zealander's about this, specially anyone who's also lived in Oz.  I was considering working in NZ as well.  There seems to be a reasonable demand for electronic engineers over there.  I've just started a new job here now, but I may go in a few years.

With respect to dangerous animals, well mostly they're just 'potentially' dangerous.  I live just near a lake, and there are many insects, so there are also many spiders.  I must have several hundred in my garden.  But hey, they're in the garden, and live there quite happily.  Good for them.  It's only an issue for small children who don't yet have the sense to leave them alone.  However, a friend of mine lives 'really close' to the same lake, and he will have tiger snakes in his garden several times per year.  This is much more serious, but still manageable.  Personally, I just wouldn't live that close to a wilderness environment.  Most people in the suburbs just don't have any issues with this stuff.  I've been bitten by spiders a number of times (not the bad ones), but most of them just give me a very minor rash.  My wife, who is from China, has an uncomfortable reaction to the local mosquitos, though I hardly notice them much more than for the annoying noise they make.

Oli

[InTheSand]

X-ray wrote:
Sooooo....no Kiwis wanting to offer an opinion? Miles? Castellen? InTheSand? Hmmmm?

Heh! I'm a Pommy ex-pat! I've only been in NZ since March 2005.

I've never been to Australia (yet!), so can't really comment there...

But as for New Zealand, pros (at least for me, and in no particular order) are:
* Fantastic vast areas of unspoiled countryside, great scenery and outdoor-oriented lifestyle, etc
* Only 4 million people in a country just over the size of the UK - no overcrowding
* Few traffic problems (unless you live in Auckland!) - in the South Island, on a three hour drive during the day, I'll probably only see ten cars outside of the town areas!
* Friendly people (genuinely)
* Good system for buying a house - it's all signed off within days of an agreement, none of the months and months of uncertainty like there is in the UK (and no such thing as gazumping)
* A relaxed and laid-back pace of life
* A reasonable climate (especially in summer - weeks of great sunny BBQ weather!), and not too hot or cold
* No Australians!! (Just kidding, the Aussies I've met have been good fun!)

Cons (again for me and in no order) are:
* Low wages, cost of living is actually fairly high
* Imported items cost a fortune and take forever to get here
* Computer-related goods (e.g. printers, etc) can actually cost *MORE* in NZ (for NZ/Aus models) than in the UK when doing a direct £ to $ conversion... Unfair! But the manufacturers quote small market size, etc...
* IT jobs are hard to find outside Christchurch, Wellington or Auckland
* The resident telecoms operator is a privatised monopoly (think British Telecom in its worst days of the early 1980s and multiply it by a few thousand), resulting in expensive line rental and expensive capped broadband with no alternative (as other ISPs have to buy their capacity from the incumbent)
* No digital telly (though this is set to change in 2007) unless you pay for the rather poor offering from Sky NZ or make do with a handful of FTA channels, and no digital radio (yet)
* Cold houses! Broadly speaking: no double glazing or central heating, no mains gas (aside from a few areas). Heating in most houses is via a fire in the lounge, using either wood or coal. More modern places use electrically controlled heat pumps but electricity prices are quite high

So, in a nutshell: I really enjoy living here and wouldn't consider going back to the UK.

However, beware the cost of living. It's easy to see NZ as a cheap place when you're bringing in pounds or US dollars, but you'll get a shock when you start earning and thinking in NZ dollars.

 - Ali