Elbox Dragon "news"

[r-tea]

@ Platon42
Sure, I guess /you/ would start a legal battle over 38 EUR?

Is this only about this single 38EUR licence fee?

[humppa]

That concerns a very old version of pci.library; pre-5.0. Current version is 6.2.

Current version is 6.5 from December 2004

[stopthegop]

Good lord, if it will stop the brewing civil war, I'll[/b] pay the 38eur myself.  Anyone else care to chip in?    

[Piru]

@stopthegop

That concerns a very old version of pci.library; pre-5.0.

No it doesn't. 5.x versions had the code aswell, at least version 5.6.

Current version is 6.2.

The RDB trashing code was removed soon after the revelation. Elbox never acknowledged its existance. Other than removing the code from the drivers, of course... [EDIT] They did ack it later, calling it "anti-piracy measure", and claimed it was pointless to have it anymore [/EDIT]

Also, problem described can be avoided by using SFS or PFS instead of standard FFS.

Eh how? The type of the filesystem has nothing to do with it.

Elbox's code is safe

If you're happy with possibility of having RDB erasing code in your drivers, sure, why not. Such code is illegal in EU, however. While Elbox continues to crypt their drivers, it's impossible to tell if such code will be put back at some point.

[c64_d0c]

finally someone have new hardware for the amiga, after all this vapor crap that have been shown month after month. thank you elbox... you guys deliver the magic!!!

:bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:


________
Blowjob Movies

[stopthegop]

If you're happy with possibility of having RDB erasing code in your drivers, sure, why not. Such code is illegal in EU, however. While Elbox continues to crypt their drivers, it's impossible to tell if such code will be put back at some point.

Has this actually happened to anyone?  If its as nefarious as it is described then someone by now would have triggered it..  

[Piru]

@stopthegop

Has this actually happened to anyone?

My understanding is that it has. To be fair, I have no first hand confirmation of that however.

I can't remember exactly what the conditions required for the trigger were, but IIRC there was a random element to it: sometimes it would not trigger. Also, while it was claimed the code would not trigger itself normally, how about say memory error togging one bit? That would be enough to make the code detect "modification", and wipe RDB of the hard disk containing SYS:.

Now, while this is theoretical, how would you know what caused your HDD to lose all data?

The code itself indeed is capable of erasing the RDB, and there is NO reason whatsoever to put something like that in your drivers. Even if you would only target "hackers" there is always possibility it will trigger for innocent users.

[Karlos]

As I see it:

Elbox seem to almost be two companies. One that makes hardware and one that makes pretty nasty software.

The former side of the company is to be applauded. It was presumably no minor job getting a coldfire based system up and running and I can't deny I'd like one, thanks very much ;-)

The arm that sees fit to make drivers that can beast your hard drive deserve to be lambasted for it. It's completely immoral to have such a devious device. On any other system it would be classed as malware.

To all those thinking that such things are fair game, see how you would feel about it if a malfuncitoning hack or patch trashed some bit of "other" memory that in turn made the drivers think whatever condition they need to trash your RDB has been met.

OS 3.x does not have any memory protection and given the surfeit of hacks and patches out there, this is not as unrealistic as it sounds. Possibly it has already happened and the victim was not even aware of what actually caused it.

Seriously, having such code is reprehensible.

[stopthegop]

How many programmers does elbox employ?  Is it possible this was the work of a rogue employee - since dismissed?   I don't think an "inside job" is outside the realm of possibility.  It would not be the first time that has happened.

[Piru]

@stopthegop

They later claimed it was their anti-piracy measure, so I doubt it. Also they mention this as the reason for removing it:

Our fully legal anti-piracy safeguard lost its purpose when information about it was spread among crackers

Fully legal... Yeah right.

[Karlos]

Piru wrote:
@stopthegop

They later claimed it was their anti-piracy measure, so I doubt it.

Pure speculation on my part but it isn't beyond the realms of possibility that this could have been badly managed "damage limitation". If so, I think it would have done them a lot less harm to say "we had a rogue developer that has since been disciplined|sacked|whatever and future drivers are guarenteed free from malicious code".

However, to all intents and purposes, they look as guilty as a puppy sitting next to a pile of gently steaming poo.

[stopthegop]

They later claimed it was their anti-piracy measure, so I doubt it.

Corporations are like politicians in how they respond to damaging news.  They respond with whatever explanation seems, at the time, like the one that will make the questions go away.  Under such circumstances, I can see where they would take a defensive, almost reactionary position.  Heck, just by virtue of being an Amiga hardware developer, they are probably used to being quick on the defensive to almost any question, let alone one concerning allegations of malicious software.  The "we did it to protect our product from criminals" excuse probably just seemed better than "We did it because we accidently hired a criminal".   I just find it hard to believe that a company like Elbox could, if it chose, make a lot more money in the greener pastures of the x86 world, but instead chose to support a much smaller but dedicated Amiga market, largely on the basis of virtue.  It certainly wasn't for market share, stock price, or 7-figure profit margins.  It just doesn't make sense that this company has a bi-polar evil twin who laces its charity with poison.    

[Piru]

@stopthegop

I'm not sure your scenario makes Elbox look any better, really.

[recidivist]

 Has anyone else remembered that Berkely Softworks first release of GEOS for the Commodore 64 would erase its install/key disk if the software "thought" it was a pirated copy. Many people found the setup instructions confusing,and the pirates cracked it anyway.
 

[stopthegop]

@Piru

If this "trashing" routine were triggered would it physically ruin the drive such that it could never be used again?  Or does it trash the file structure (thus data) on the drive, but where I could still partition and reformat the drive?

[Ral-Clan]

Errr....can someone fill in us Amiga users who are not fully acquanted with the whole Dragon project?

The web page I found says it is only for the A1200, but a poster here talks about being disappointed it will not work with his A1200 clock port....and another is talking about how he'd like to get it for his A4000....

What kind of Amiga is it going to be for?

Can anyone provide an overview in a few sentences?