Oops! Low-level formatted my IDE drive...

[uncleted]

Which by definition, isn't a low-level format, as you're still stuck in translation mode.  They just call it a low-level format.

Technically only the manufacturers could perform one these days, unless you have access to ZBR handling hardware.

[ferrellsl]

Yeah, no need for that kind of hardware at my place.  It's cheaper to just buy a new drive!

[Piru]

So in essense this really isn't low level format either. Also, it will only work for old drives anyway.

Here's the final word (Seagate Disk Manager is really Ontrack software).

Regardless, since the drive probably is dead(*) anyway, it wouldn't hurt to try this... :-)

(*) dead as in:

If there is an inappropriate translation for low level formatting, error in the ROM, or an error reading the ROM, or an error or interruption occurs during the low-level format of the drive, the drive may be rendered unusable. Re-doing the low-level format will not fix this, if this happens it can only be fixed by the hard drive manufacturer.

[Karlos]

@Linde

I suspect this is really something you didn't want to do :-(

I recall hearing that modern IDE drives simply ignore any attempt to "low level format" them. However, looking at Piru's posts I can't say I'm too sure about that, either.

[ferrellsl]

Now you're misunderstanding me.  Some older, and I suspect newer drives CAN be low-level formatted using Disk Manager and several other tools.

I know for a fact that it works on IDE drives manufactured as late as 2002.  I used it (disk Manager) successfully on several drives that were less than 12 GB in size.

Even the link you provided says it's possible but not recommended.  Disk Manager does both, low-level format and zero fill.  If they were one in the same, then why even have it as an option under the utilities menu?

[Piru]

I know for a fact that it works on IDE drives manufactured as late as 2002. I used it (disk Manager) successfully on several drives that were less than 12 GB in size.

Even the link you provided says it's possible but not recommended. Disk Manager does both, low-level format and zero fill. If they were one in the same, then why even have it as an option under the utilities menu?

If you read the FAQ entry carefully it also says:

In many cases, the hard drive manufacturer has made the drive's electronics in such a way that a command to low-level format will be ignored or treated as a zero-fill command; these drives cannot be low-level formatted except by the drive manufacturer.

Thus, it's quite possible that the drives actually do zerofill, and no low level format. There is no way of knowing what the older drive does.

I seriously doubt any newish drive does real LLF.

[ferrellsl]

Well, as I said earlier, why have a low-level format option in your software if all you're going to do is a zero-fill?  Some hard drives will allow low-level formatting, and others will not.  The user will just have to try it on his drive and see what happens.

I know that the drives I used Disk Manager on exhibited the same symptoms mentioned by the guy who started this thread....Disk Manager low-level formattted them for me and then I was able to do a high-level format and re-install my OS (which was Windows by the way).

No one seems to question that the guy who started this thread low-level formatted his IDE drive ,so why is it such a huge stretch to believe that Seagate/OnTrack Disk Manager can also low-level format drives?

But I believe you are correct about newer drives.  Manufacturers don't want end-users to be low-level formatting the drives.  Causes too many problems and too many calls to the tech support line.  The guy who started this thread must have an older drive...around 4 GB, so it wouldn't hurt to try one of the various tools out there to fix it.

[Piru]

why have a low-level format option in your software if all you're going to do is a zero-fill?

Because at some point some anchient drives actually did support low level format?

The user will just have to try it on his drive and see what happens.

And the user has absolutely no way of knowing what happens. It could be LLF, it could be zerofill, it could be nothing. Just because some program has the LLF option doesn't mean that drives actually support it.

I know that the drives I used Disk Manager on exhibited the same symptoms mentioned by the guy who started this thread....Disk Manager low-level formattted them for me and then I was able to do a high-level format and re-install my OS (which was Windows by the way).

OT, but: Windows can get fooled if the MBR is FUBAR. Just clearing the first 512 bytes of the drive usually have exactly the same effect as zerofilling the whole drive (except that it takes couple of milliseconds instead of several hours). Alternatively you can boot from the windoze CD, go to recover terminal and fixboot /mbr. MBR FUBARed drives don't make repetitive noise, though.

No one seems to question that the guy who started this thread low-level formatted his IDE drive ,so why is it such a huge stretch to believe that Seagate/OnTrack Disk Manager can also low-level format drives?

It's fairly sensible to assume he used the HDToolBox Low Level Format option. It was supposed to be used with SCSI only, and has since been removed from HDToolBox completely.

I am not denying that this OnTrack tool can low level format (if supported by the drive). I am questioning if any drive since 80s actually does LLF (according to Ontrack some drive might actually just do zerowrite instead of actual LLF).

[ferrellsl]

I tried fixing the MBRs on the drives in question.  It didn't work so as a last ditch effort I used Disk Manager.  It's saved my bacon more than once. And it never hurts to try.  I am still amazed by the people out there who do a low-level format on their drives thinking it will fix whatever problem they are having.  Those same people will completely re-install their OS just over a minor problem.  It's the brute force method, sometimes effective but not very pretty!

[Piru]

Well, my point is that it can hurt. But naturally if the next step would be binning the drive... at that point, why not.

[ferrellsl]

Agreed!  He shouldn't have initiated a low-level format to begin with.  I hope he tries to recover the drive before tossing it out.  Maybe he'll keep us posted.

[Hyperspeed]

What is Low Level Format for anyway?

The older HDToolBox that had this feature is complete crap for SCSI drives anyway, it doesn't have an option to select Asynchronous/Synchronous transfer modes.

SCSI users should use Phase5's SCSIConfig v1.27.

Bare in mind when you throw an old hard disk out that someone could indeed fix it and recover all your data. So if you have something sensitive on there it is probably best to physically destroy the drive.

[InTheSand]

I always physically destroy dead hard drives... I like all the shiny bits inside! :crazy:

 - Ali

[Zac67]

A low-level format is defined as writing sector marks and everything else needed to a blank magnetic media (or treat it as such).

On MFM/RLL (ST-506) drives this was needed since every controller/system used a unique timing, so it wasn't possible to do in the factory. Later, ESDI drives somewhat softened the distinction between LLF and re-zero (on some models is was a real LLF, on some a re-zero and prep for partitioning).

Yet later, SCSI and IDE drives were usually based on linear actuators, rather than the earlier steppers and had to rely on servo informations (either a dedicated platter or embedded info between data sectors) that had to be written in the factory to enable the heads to stay on a track. For physical reasons the drives are not able to write these servo information all by themselves and thus cannot be LLF. Trying to do so on early IDE drives may wipe out bad sector tables, vital servo information and/or the drive's firmware (only a small bootstrap resides in ROM/Flash).

Beginning from the early 90's, drives all run on linear actuators (much faster, cheaper and more reliable) with embedded servo info and can only mimmick LLF.

[rockape]

Hi,

From  http://wonkity.com/~wblock/Irritate/Irritate.html

"Q. Will low-level formatting ruin my hard drive?

A. Maybe, but probably not. On a few old IDE drives, it might. Most recent IDE drives simply ignore the low-level format command and pretend they did it. For SCSI, you should generally not need to low-level format the drive (and some SCSI drives ignore the command, too). If you must do a low-level format, make sure there are no power interruptions and that you give it adequate time to finish. A full low-level format can take quite a while, half an hour or more for large or slow drives."

So you may well have formatted your Hard Drive.

Regards, Michael

aka rockape

[Linde]

Okay, thanks for the answers. Now, should I get a 2.5"-3.5" adapter to fix a 60B drive or should I just get a new much better one? hehe

After using windows for so long I'm just not used to options in the formatting tools that renders your drive useless!