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Author Topic: Amiga OS 4 should be ported over to the xx86.  (Read 22580 times)

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Offline adz

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Re: Amiga OS 4 should be ported over to the xx86.
« Reply #74 from previous page: December 02, 2006, 12:56:38 PM »
[Eric Cartman]
Hyperion/Amiga Inc can suck my balls...
[/Eric Cartman]

Open source is the only way OS4 will stand a chance in the real world and since that's never gonna happen, just forget about it and move on. Think about it realistically for a second. Why would a large corportation abandon all its Win/Mac machines and purchase some obscure piece of custom PPC hardware to run an obscure OS that features no real security nor a decent web browser? Amiga OS is a hobbiest platform, plain and simple. The only way for it to thrive/survive is via an open source model. Amiga stInc. should release the rights to the Amiga community under a GNU and forget about trying to milk the platform for every last cent as this onlt serves to lower the Amiga coffin further into the hole.
 

Offline bhoggett

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Re: Amiga OS 4 should be ported over to the xx86.
« Reply #75 on: December 02, 2006, 02:42:09 PM »
(Sorry, long rant - you have been warned!)

It's too late. Hyperion have always insisted there's no "market" on the x86(read mainstream AMD64/Core2Duo etc.) because of "competition" from other operating systems. Thus they have effectively killed off any remote hope the Amiga had as a platform years ago. Most realistic observers noted that the custom PPC hardware route was going to lead nowhere so it hasn't been a surprise to anyone when things turned out they way they have.

Now the problem of hardware is almost academic. Most people won't give a toss about AOS4 because it's practically in the stone age for software availability. What little there is often turns out to be primitive and relatively expensive.

What's the point of having a nice efficient OS if you have to spend ages jumping through hoops just to get your work done, or have to write your own software because what's available is ten years out of date?

AOS4 (and MorphOS) are following an outdated model. The only comparable OS I can think of is SkyOS - which like them is developed by a small number of people and is sold on a commercial basis. Despite running on commonplace hardware and having an easier API to post applications to, how many SkyOS users do you know?

The problem - and to an extent this is even worse for AROS - is the lack of software. What's the point of a fast responsive OS if there's sweet FA to run on it? Amiga software is now largely vastly outclassed by FREE offerings on Windows and Linux. Being an Amiga user involves sacrifices and that is not a great promotional concept. Having three diverging platforms within the Amiga scene has made things even worse. Look at Sputnik - it's in beta for MorphOS but it needs developers to sweat to port it over to AROS and AOS4. FFS, even if you accept that the platforms shouldn't be binary compatible the APIs should be close enough so that new software would only need a recompile - but no, instead of convergence you have divergence and even further fragmentation. It's nuts I tell you.

Years ago I contributed a short article - more of an opinion really - to the sadly stillborn Amiga.org magazine pilot. It was on the subject of cross-platform APIs and how those who wanted a future for Amiga-like operating systems should make it a priority to get such things ported so that the user base can then inherit a large catalogue of software which could then be easily ported without delay. I still think the failure to address this is as big a nail in the Amiga coffin as the dimwitted insistence on sticking with the 1980s concepts of OS/hardware bundle when no one involved had the resources to be at the cutting edge with such an approach.

Now the years have passed and I don't see any way back. I drifted away from the Amiga scene when my Amithlon system died and I found I had no compelling reason to rebuild it on new hardware - the Amiga had dropped below the threshold of what I need for a usable system, and from what I can see it's been falling even further behind in the time that has passed since then. I don't see any future growth in the Amiga scene - the commercial offerings are virtually dead in the water as viable marketable products and AROS simply lacks the focus and direction to supplant them. That it is still very much the poor man's option in terms of development resources despite the terminal problems suffered by AOS4 and MOS over the past few years is very indicative of its future potential.

I used to advocate porting AOS to the mainstream hardware platform because it made sense to wipe out the handicap of expensive inferior hardware and make it accessible to a wider audience, but I no longer see the point. The development costs and effort involved and the complete lack of a market for AOS on any hardware render any ports irrelevant. AROS is free, but as Bernie Meyer mentions in a parallel thread to this on AWN: what's the point of running AROS on your x86/AMD64/Core2Duo when there's nothing it can do better than the alternatives.

Sorry to be so negative, but reading through forums like AWN and MorphZone simply leaves me shaking my head in disbelief. The same old pipedreams, the same old dogma, the same old prejudices and the same sad pseudo-elitism that was dominant several years ago is still there now. Nothing has been learned.

Like the Neanderthals, the Amiga scene is just too set in its ways to survive in the long term and this makes me sad to see. Every time I come back to the forums to find out what's been going on I see hardly anything has progressed, month after months, season aafter season, yera after year.

Time to decide: is the Amiga scene about commercial interests or just a hobby? Is it about offering users an experience they can't get elsewhere or about keeping nostalgia alive? It can't be a bit of everything any more.
Bill Hoggett
 

Offline _ThEcRoW

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Re: Amiga OS 4 should be ported over to the xx86.
« Reply #76 on: December 02, 2006, 03:01:05 PM »
@stone

Power efficient?? lol  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:

Then why Apple ditched ppc laptops if favour of intel chips?
Yeah, they were huge calefactors.
Amiga 1200 desktop. Apollo 030/50 Mhz 8mb ram + ClassicWB + Wb 3.1
Amiga 500 + ACA500Plus + 16gb CF | ECS Power!!!
C64 DTV + Keyboard mod. Waiting for a 1541 disk ve...
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C64mini + usb drive with loads of games...
 

Offline monami

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Re: Amiga OS 4 should be ported over to the xx86.
« Reply #77 on: December 02, 2006, 05:57:36 PM »
bhoggett "i told you so..." would have saved all that effort! i don't like m$. so there is a gap in the market! i would like amiga os type os in any form on pc, yes as part of nostalgia.
you can't win the lottery without buying a ticket. don't give up yet. you never know what you'll find till you get there... amiga did shape much of the home computing experience and expectations. m$'s blueprint doesn't suit me. i disagree with the polices they have and they are seen to be the law. i would not use windows if both drm and ebay didn't exist. i dislike m$ for these reasons also. if i buy a cheap game off ebay and it gives it dos or windows requirements it usually won't run and i use dosbox (third party app.) to get it working... so much for an "operating system" that doesn't operate! wtf am i paying ms for??? thank you dosbox. if that didn't exist i would have given up on classic games. i also find that with most games, why it's just the ones i buy i don't know, that they don't run on one set of hardware... but fine on another pc. M$ EXPECT ME TO BUY A LICENCE BECAUSE THEY CAN'T MAKE IT WORK ON THE ONE PC I WANT TO USE IT ON!!! i was going to email bill about this how can you sell an operating system that doesn't operate? trade disriptions act??? good luck in thinking m$ are your savour... i doubt anyone will benefit from their company, but them. (they don't listen to their customers.)
i will bless them that bless you. i will curse them that curse you. gods promise to his chosen people the jews.
 

Offline humppa

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Re: Amiga OS 4 should be ported over to the xx86.
« Reply #78 on: December 02, 2006, 06:48:28 PM »
@bhoggett

Great post. You hit the nail right on the head.  :-)
 

Offline bhoggett

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Re: Amiga OS 4 should be ported over to the xx86.
« Reply #79 on: December 02, 2006, 06:51:24 PM »
Quote
monami wrote:
bhoggett "i told you so..." would have saved all that effort!

I wrote a long reply to this, but then deleted it since you obviously don't read longs posts carefully. Let me summarise instead: you didn't get a word of what I wrote.

In a somewhat ironic way, this illustrates exactly why the Amiga scene has failed so miserably to stop the rot. It's become so insular and close-minded that it can't even understand the principles by which it sticks to so dilligently have been obsoleted years ago.
Bill Hoggett
 

Offline ne_one

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Re: Amiga OS 4 should be ported over to the xx86.
« Reply #80 on: December 02, 2006, 07:22:08 PM »
Well composed and likely destined to be ill-received for the same reasons that it's so accurate.

The only wrinkle I would add is that it was a legion of second generation evangelists that took up the mantle that the Amiga could displace other mainstream, general-purpose platforms. Their intentions were likely genuine, but in most respects it ended up doing more harm than good.

The yardstick for 'success' is always a difficult one. First generation Amiga users did not entertain thoughts of the platform taking over the world -- they hoped that it would survive and be recognized as a legitimate niche player.

Since OS4 was announced, Hyperion has always been more vocal in maintaining that running on a mainstream processor would erode the remaining spirit of the system and encourage piracy. The first point has always been troubling -- in the decade since Commodore evaporated very few people still exist with their head in the sand. It's not like we don't all interact with Windows, Linux or MacOS to some extent on a daily basis. The piracy argument is equally distressing. Target a market that will pay for products and services and forget the rest. Piracy is inevitable.

In the end, we've really had to endure 12 years of folly and the main culprit here has been those that own and ctonrol the IP.

Could 'success' still be achieved in today's market? I'm convinced it's possible. Can this be achieved with no clear vision and no one helming the ship? Hardly.
 

Offline humppa

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Re: Amiga OS 4 should be ported over to the xx86.
« Reply #81 on: December 02, 2006, 10:15:43 PM »
Have a look at this interview with Ben Hermans:

interview

It lists some of Hyperion's flawed reasons for not targetting OS4 at x86 ("Because then everybody would be using Windows instead!!!") :roll:
 

Offline bhoggett

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Re: Amiga OS 4 should be ported over to the xx86.
« Reply #82 on: December 02, 2006, 11:10:24 PM »
Quote

humppa wrote:
Have a look at this interview with Ben Hermans:

interview

It lists some of Hyperion's flawed reasons for not targetting OS4 at x86 ("Because then everybody would be using Windows instead!!!") :roll:

 :lol:

It's good that even monumental stupidity gets recorded these days - if only so future decision makers can read and learn. OTOH, learning from past mistakes is an ability bred out of Amiga decision makers years ago. One might as well try to teach a stone.

AOS today is exactly where it deserves to be. Harsh but true. That's why some of us were left with no option but to move on - better than hanging onto the coattails of fools, hoping one day they'll see the light.
Bill Hoggett
 

Offline tomazkid

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Re: Amiga OS 4 should be ported over to the xx86.
« Reply #83 on: December 03, 2006, 12:14:53 AM »
"" Amiga OS 4 should be ported over to the xx86.""

I just can´t get where I've seen this topic before  :-D
 

Offline humppa

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Re: Amiga OS 4 should be ported over to the xx86.
« Reply #84 on: December 03, 2006, 12:33:02 AM »
Quote

tomazkid wrote:
"" Amiga OS 4 should be ported over to the xx86.""

I just can´t get where I've seen this topic before  :-D


 :lol:

The Frieden's should be happy that there are still so many people interested in OS4 after all this time of failed promises and missed deadlines. They should be happy that there are people AT ALL who are interested in OS4 on ANY sort of platform.

I wonder if that new website of the "true Amigans" would be so tolerant to allow people discussing such condemnable wishes (buying OS4 from Hyperion and running it on available hardware).  :lol:
 

Offline neon32

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Re: Amiga OS 4 should be ported over to the xx86.
« Reply #85 on: December 03, 2006, 02:31:22 AM »
Quote

humppa wrote:

The Frieden's should be happy that there are still so many people interested in OS4 after all this time of failed promises and missed deadlines. They should be happy that there are people AT ALL who are interested in OS4 on ANY sort of platform.


And YOU should be grateful thats there's actually someone out there willing to put all the effort and dedication into keeping the Amiga OS going.
 

Offline neon32

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Re: Amiga OS 4 should be ported over to the xx86.
« Reply #86 on: December 03, 2006, 03:04:06 AM »
Quote

_ThEcRoW wrote:
@stone

Power efficient?? lol  :roflmao:  :roflmao:  :roflmao:

Then why Apple ditched ppc laptops if favour of intel chips?
Yeah, they were huge calefactors.


How many x86 chips can you buy at the moment that run at 3 Watts peak output huh?
 

Offline humppa

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Re: Amiga OS 4 should be ported over to the xx86.
« Reply #87 on: December 03, 2006, 03:07:48 AM »
Quote
And YOU should be grateful thats there's actually someone out there willing to put all the effort and dedication into keeping the Amiga OS going.


I am. :-)

That's why I wish that their effort and dedication is not completely pointless.
 

Offline Seiya

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Re: Amiga OS 4 should be ported over to the xx86.
« Reply #88 on: December 03, 2006, 09:48:57 AM »
Quote

woz111 wrote:
I think that Hyperion should port the Amiga OS over to the PC platform now, due to the death of the promised power-pc motherboards etc and a total lack of new hardware for the amiga. It's now only a matter of time before our beloved platform dies out forever. You can get new pc motherboards for under £30? Think of the possibilities, Hyperion could develop OS 4 for the pc platform with a specific setup requirement. What do you all think?


if a day WinUAE will emulate  PPC cpu...we can use both MOS and OS4 system..

Offline Akiko

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Re: Amiga OS 4 should be ported over to the xx86.
« Reply #89 on: December 03, 2006, 10:10:15 AM »

"Have a look at this interview with Ben Hermans"

Isn't that interview like 5 years old now :roll: