Amiga OS 4 should be ported over to the xx86.

[stone]

We should now forget the PPC, the cost for one would turn a lot of people off. And our community's small enough as it is.

cost is quite a poor argument considering the widely spread use of powerpc chips in cheap hardware and game consoles. amd and intel systems are way expensive in comparison.

Today there's fantastic technology sold at very low price, produced by the people who really know how to do their job

definitly, and an awful lot of that technology isnt x86 based.

/stone

[dammy]

Using your own comparison, personally I'm not seeking for the wild wild west, rather the excitement of that era.

Talk to Cloanto, they will hook you right up.  It's just like being there.

... and a OS specifically made for it.

No, it was a port of WB 3.1 from a 68K Amiga to PPC.  That's the reason Hyperion does not have ownership of OS4, it's mearly licensed it (which apparently Amiga Inc triggered the buy back option).

You're forgetting at least one other difference: the fact that we have now a single motherboard set as standard with its own OS, and not just an OS with a very poor support for the vast array of hardware in the x86 market. Isn't this a difference, too?

Not at all, take a look at the AROS has for support of nForce mobos.  The only chipset not very well supported in nForce4 and that is because it's fairly new and not many of the Devs haven't bought themselves nForce4 mobos, yet.  You forget, I was in the business of selling x86 with AROS, I personally funded most of the AROS support of nForce chipsets.  It not very difficult to target a given chipset.  Just open your eyes and talk to developers which is the best for the least amount of work.  Amazing things happen when you keep your ego in check, you can actually make good judgements calls.

BTW, keep an eye on this bounty.  I can see some big changes coming after that one is completed.

Dammy
Head Troll
Black Troll Technology Corporation

[dammy]

opposed to intel and amd you can go to ibm and have any powerpc cpu you could ever imgaine created to suit your spefic needs. with power/powerpc you are covered in every imaginable product from space shuttles and supercomputers to coffeemachines, pda's and childrens toys.

1. How much does it cost to get Big Blue to customize a PPC core?

2. Why not just stick with AMD or Intel and have them customize a x86 core for your needs?  It's got to be cheaper.

Dammy

[neon32]

dammy wrote:

Amazing things happen when you keep your ego in check

That could go both ways Dammy.


It's a good thing none of the next generation consoles are using Power PC processors in their machines, or that would surely be a catastrophic business decision..

[TheWizard]

neon32 wrote:

dammy wrote:

Amazing things happen when you keep your ego in check

That could go both ways Dammy.


It's a good thing none of the next generation consoles are using Power PC processors in their machines, or that would surely be a catastrophic business decision..

Aren't all three next generation consoles using PowerPC variants?

[stone]

1. How much does it cost to get Big Blue to customize a PPC core?

2. Why not just stick with AMD or Intel and have them customize a x86 core for your needs?  It's got to be cheaper.

price obviously depending on what you need done. wheter you need modifications to an exciting design or you need something radically different.

first off, amd and intel cant modify their chips as ibm can. so besides it being way more expensive, even smaller modifications would be magnitudes more expensive, while bigger changes is basicly impossible as an intel or amd customer you buy what they offer or nothing.

the entire concept of powerpc is buildt up around modular and extendable components. that is why ibm can do powerpc chips in the first place. that is why microsoft, sony, nintendo and lots of other companies all have their custom cpu's made at ibm - if you didnt realise this before participating in this discussion, you might want to read up on a few facts.

http://www.power.org/about/technology/
http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/power/newto/

Aren't all three next generation consoles using PowerPC variants?

yes they are. im sure his post was ment as irony.

/stone

[AmiDude]

Now, hold on guys. Don't panick! Just stick to your
classic Amiga hardware / software, and forget about any new Amiga stuff to come, because there isn't gonna be any...
Just love the Amiga for what she is... A sweet darling!
 :-D

[Hammer]

stone wrote:

Why does PPC offer any more potential than x86 for custom machines? In theory, couldn't a custom x86 motherboard be created? (Eg. using some sort of Kickstart equivalent instead of a BIOS, with integrated custom GPU.)

opposed to intel and amd you can go to ibm and have any powerpc cpu you could ever imgaine created to suit your spefic needs. with power/powerpc you are covered in every imaginable product from space shuttles and supercomputers to coffeemachines, pda's and childrens toys.
/stone

Emmm, it seems one didn't factor in
1. NASA's purchase orders for X86 based micro-controllers.
2. Surrey Space Technology Limited's satellites i.e. refer to "PCs in space".

As for "childrens toys" refer to "100 dollar" laptop.

[Hammer]

price obviously depending on what you need done. wheter you need modifications to an exciting design or you need something radically different.

first off, amd and intel cant modify their chips as ibm can.

AMD counter that proposition with Torrenza platform i.e. leveraging high volume infrastructure and HTT compatible custom co-processors.

Both AMD and Intel focuses on reaching "economics of scale" for GPU, CPU, core-logic and motherboard infrastructure.  

so besides it being way more expensive, even smaller modifications would be magnitudes more expensive, while bigger changes is basicly impossible as an intel or amd customer you buy what they offer or nothing.

Not quite...

It seems you not in privy to Microsoft(Windows OS biz group) and AMD’s co-operation in building the AMD64 ISA i.e. refer to Anvil and Sledge-Hammer project.  

[AmiDude]

Yeah, right... :lol:

[c64_d0c]

________
ARIZONA DISPENSARY

[AmiDude]

 :python:  :horse:

[Hammer]

stone wrote:

We should now forget the PPC, the cost for one would turn a lot of people off. And our community's small enough as it is.

cost is quite a poor argument considering the widely spread use of powerpc chips in cheap hardware

Emmm, ~60 million ppc units in 2005…

and game consoles. amd and intel systems are way expensive in comparison.

PC HW is not subsidise by software btw.

Go head and offer to the market an ATX compatible motherboard with Cell CPU socket or PPC970xx socket for 100 USD or any ASrock priced motherboard. Offer it before quad-core K8L arrives.

[dammy]

It's a good thing none of the next generation consoles are using Power PC processors in their machines, or that would surely be a catastrophic business decision..

My bad, I thought we were in referencing desktop computers and not game boxes.  Game boxes, PDA, cellphone, whatever CPU floats your boat.

Dammy

[stone]

Emmm, it seems one didn't factor in
1. NASA's purchase orders for X86 based micro-controllers.
2. Surrey Space Technology Limited's satellites i.e. refer to "PCs in space".

As for "childrens toys" refer to "100 dollar" laptop.

it seems one missed the point and instead ended up providing proof that you buy off the shelf parts at intel/amd while ibm provides any custom made powerpc cpu you might want.

AMD counter that proposition with Torrenza platform i.e. leveraging high volume infrastructure and HTT compatible custom co-processors.

co-processors are exactly that, and doesnt give you any more or less customaization options over the cpu. torrenzo doesnt do anything in this league either as it only allows for a series of cpu's to be used in the same socket. and counters what exactly? ibm has always provided its customers this option for years, while amd only will offer it in 2007 at the earliest. at best its a minor step and a fraction of what ibm can do.

/stone

[coldfish]

Varthall wrote:

Of course everyone has their own tastes and preferences. I have always liked the idea of "custom" (i.e. with a high, or total degree of compatibility, not reached only by software drivers) computers as they make me, as an owner, fell more part of a community (same hardware, easier to get advice on hardware problems), hardware banging becomes a possibility, and last but not least I become much easier attached to them. Also, a custom machine with AmigaOs is more similar to the concept of the original Amigas. I have found the A1 (and the Pegasos even more) to be an acceptable balance between a custom machine and one using off-the-shelf components, required by economies of scale. Others disagree, saying that's too much similar to a PC, it depends to what you'd find acceptable and what not.

Varthall

You dont need "custom" hardware to get those things.  You can join any computer club and get a sense of community.  I think what you want is a sense of exclusivity, which is a selfish motive?  
This kind of thinking wont get Amiga anywhere other than remaining as a tiny niche, "not commercially viable" and henceforth lead to eventual extinction.

It really is a shame A-inc listened to the vocal nutters in the community when planning the A1 and OS4, (though I understand why they did) because if the OS was available right now for x86, we'd all be posting here using OS4, and have a sense of community and even some sense of exclusivity, complete with affordable, upgradeable hardware.  And the "PPC-only! - x86 is Satan" nutters would be silenced (or would they?) and we could get on building the OS's popularity.  

I guess this is where AROS comes in... :-D