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Offline redrumloa

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Re: The $500 000 Question: How much is Amiga *worth*?
« Reply #44 on: September 17, 2006, 05:30:24 PM »
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So if Linux and Crapos can rise from the dead, so can Amiga.


And who will do this and on what hardware? How will it get marketed?
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Offline neon32

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Re: The $500 000 Question: How much is Amiga *worth*?
« Reply #45 on: September 17, 2006, 05:34:30 PM »
Maybe because you've been so involved in the amiga that you have such strong views against it? Do you not think that other people beyond old fans of the amiga will be interested in OS 4 and beyond. Look at Linux for instance and how many people are switching to that over Windows, and i can't even stand Linux!
As long as we have people with dreams and developers to develop on the new amiga, thats what will bring it forward. I know for one i'll be selling my pc to buy one in the future.
 

Offline snowman040

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Re: The $500 000 Question: How much is Amiga *worth*?
« Reply #46 on: September 17, 2006, 06:12:44 PM »
Drifting from topic aren't we ?

The point IS that TODAY Amiga Inc., Amiga OS, and all IP/HW/.... isn't worth much. Possibly in next 5 years someone will invest money in R&D, patent some cool things, rewrite Amiga OS and then we will have cool platform/system - but TODAY we don't have that. And you can't sell the possibility for market success....

@neon32: development without sales is a useless thing to do. Even 'free' linux was developed by commercial companies, they brought it to desktop market in last 4-5 years.

p.s. I can bore you all to death with Win/OSX/Linux historical data, but open another topic if interested.
 

Offline stopthegop

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Re: The $500 000 Question: How much is Amiga *worth*?
« Reply #47 on: September 17, 2006, 06:26:25 PM »
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And who will do this and on what hardware? How will it get marketed?


The marketing is easy.  Hire the experts.  Bill Gates, more than anyone else in history, has demonstrated the power of good advertising.  Marketing is best left to the professionals.  Regardless of what it costs, a good marketing strategy is worth it.  Sign up for the old platinum account at Ogilvy & Mather (or other top firm) shovel a truckload of cash into a "flood the airwaves" style marketing campaign, and you're set.  You could be peddling total garbage (Like Gates) and it would still reap 7 figure sales.  The public (especially American) have proved this time and again.  

You ask on what hardware a new Amiga might run?  I myself favor completely redesigned hardware made to look and "feel" like a classic Amiga -- not some stock, "me too" vanilla PPC board with an "Amiga" bios.  A radical new design, something totally outside the box -- so much so that the it would be impossible for the inbread technology press to ignore it.  I would seek a totally scaleable, modular design.  Something you would instantly recognize as an Amiga (elegant, responsive, intuitive...ability to multitask instead of just make the claim, etc..), yet futuristic.  Not "modern", but years ahead of its time, just like the classic Amiga was for the better half of the last two decades.  

This is just how things would proceed if I was in charge.  :)  I'm by no means "rich", but I do save, and have got a pretty tidy amount built up..  Plus a couple of well compensated friends...  If indeed you see Amiga, Inc. go up for sale for, say, 5 or 10 grand?  Maybe we'll see some movement.  :)          
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Offline dammy

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Re: The $500 000 Question: How much is Amiga *worth*?
« Reply #48 on: September 17, 2006, 06:44:14 PM »
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And who will do this and on what hardware? How will it get marketed?


Truely amazing that those who have not gotten their hands dirty in sales of any thing Amiga related live in such fantasy world were Amiga is economically viable.  The only thing Amiga Inc has is copyrights and some licenses to patents that are going to expire shortly.  That's worth alot, not.  What's left, the logo?  Oh hold me back.  WB 3.1?  Even when it was mentioned if Bill Buck got ownership of WB, he would donate it to AROS, the AROS crews said they didn't want it.  That's pretty damning right there.  DEad?  It's way out of date and all that work on current apps will have to be reworked since the new Intent is so radically different then the orginal Intent Fleecy was getting excited about.  Of course, we can't forget the shell game, who knows how well Billed&Fleeced hid their corporate liabilities from those who have judgements agains Amiga Inc WA.  Even more liabilities a new owner would have to consider and that effects the final sale price.

For those who think different, please, please, morgage your house a second time and max out those credit cards and open Amiga shops.  There are Billions to be made, right?

/me tosses another wooden stake to redrumloa.

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Offline stopthegop

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Re: The $500 000 Question: How much is Amiga *worth*?
« Reply #49 on: September 17, 2006, 06:51:35 PM »
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For those who think different, please, please, morgage your house a second time and max out those credit cards and open Amiga shops. There are Billions to be made, right?



There's a name for people like that.  They're called entrepeneurs.  btw, your post could have just as easily been written about Apple in 1993.  
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Offline stone

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Re: The $500 000 Question: How much is Amiga *worth*?
« Reply #50 on: September 17, 2006, 07:02:34 PM »
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Could I possibly be any worse than the FIVE companies that have owned the Amiga brand over the last TWELVE years? Anyone who thinks the market is healthy

its no a matter of being worse, than being good enough. nobody claimed the amigamarket is healthy, actually its been completly nonexistant for many years already.

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I'm no major player and never have been, but I have been in the game. In this market there is NO major players and there is NO serious market.

Since you issued the challenge, what have YOU done that trumps MY right to have an opinion besides looking out your basement window?

and what challenge are you talking about? why is this always about hostility, dont you get the point at all? its not about your personal feelings, letdowns and disapointements. its about oppotunities from where we stand today, and they arnt significantly worse just because of a few amigausers feels trampled on and have to voice it.

i dont belittle your personal opinion or right therefor. but opposed to you i dont take the view of someone who got cheated. i dont feel the need to slam other users on their head because i myself feel miserable, but rather i try to show you the perspective that a potential investor could have.

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It's called reality, take a deep breath. How big do you really think this community is? How many of those people do you really think would pony up to actually buy a product if produced? The total "community" worldwide is in the (very) low thousands.

i clearly stated the amiga community isnt worth a dime to anyone. its not existant and highly irrelevant to anyone interested in amiga as a brand or amigaos as an operatingsystem. now, thats reality for you and the standpoint i took from my first post.

what is important though, is the massive amounts people who nods their head when they hear the name.

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Prove to me otherwise? 2006 is almost over and what is left of this very, very small community is bleeding away a few users a day. What product will come out in 2007 to reinvigorate the market? 2008? 2009? 2010? Hard facts please, not over exuberant optimism, not religious speak.

you make up something i never stated, then wants me to prove it for you? it doesnt matter what products comes out, but what the options are and what value potential interested parties can see. then take it from there and do anything, or nothing, as you please.

personally im not optimistic about the future. i dont hold much hope for the operatingsystem of my dreams, but im no more blind than i know how buisness works and that there is a lot of possibilities.

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Your head is in the 90's and that's no insult the only one here throwing insults is yourself. There are no "millions" of people, they've all moved on. They owned a product and when that product didn't fill their needs they moved on. None of these people will buy a substandard product for 10-100X price of a mainstream product

please point me to my insulting paragraphs since that would help me improve my forum posts in the future.

exactly, there are millions of people who have moved on. those are preciesly the potiential ones as well as newcommers. the rest is irrelevant.

you are the one expecting a substandard product. im talking a scope thats in a realistic league for any decent sized company that wants to make a profit. not a couple tousand hobbyiests who wont make a difference anyway.

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Actually I disagree, your head is in the 80's, not the 90's. In the 80's a single person or 2 could cobble together something killer and make a mint

and why exactly is that? i seem to be the one who takes a step back and looks at the real possibilities from where we stand. where did i talk a two man operation?

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Nowadays it takes huge corporations with tons of researcgh, funding and quality control. It also takes buttloads of major partnerships, political connections and such. No one with even the slightest interest in the Amiga comes near to these requirements.

and there are plenty of those giant cooperations who could be potential partners or licensees of something amiga related.

you are badly mistaken when you figure noone has an interest, but im sure its way easier to sit and moan and complain that the world is unfair than actually go look at the world and poke it for a response.

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You can have your head in the clouds all you want, it won't change anything. People like you come and go. Come in raving how negative everyone is and how great everything will be shortly, and in a few months to a year when it doesn't pan out they quitely disapear without a word.

do i really have my head in the clouds? its not really that complicated. put up a list of amigaos's strengths compared to windows/linux/whatever and then list the companies that could have an interest, no matter how odd or unexpected, and you will get a substantial list.

im pretty confident that you havnt been on the amiga ride any longer than i have, so why you figure that  people like me 'come and go' really is bogus. the only difference between us in that regard is our standpoint and view upon the situration. you seem far to concerned with something as irrelevant as the fact that someone played fool on you personally with 10 years of let downs.

/stone
 

Offline dammy

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Re: The $500 000 Question: How much is Amiga *worth*?
« Reply #51 on: September 17, 2006, 07:08:48 PM »
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There's a name for people like that. They're called entrepeneurs.


As someone who got out of the retail end of selling Amiga related products, it was very clear, that market is not economically viable. So show me up, go spend lots of money on setting up a store and let me know how wealthy you become.  Feel free to rub in my face that you were right.

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btw, your post could have just as easily been written about Apple in 1993.


Pity it took them 10 plus years to realize what many have been saying all long, PPC was not a viable choice for desktop CPU.  Thankfully for Apple, they realized this before it was too late.

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Offline redrumloa

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Re: The $500 000 Question: How much is Amiga *worth*?
« Reply #52 on: September 17, 2006, 07:23:27 PM »
@neon32

I don't have strong views against the Amiga. I would love to see the Amiga make a comeback. I just don't see where any of the players involved have either the vision or the means to make it happen.

Linux is a success because it runs on commodity hardware, it's very mature and it's free. The Amiga doesn't have any of this going for it.

Don't get me wrong. I would love to see Amiga Inc make the hard choices to take a final stand, but even then it is probably too late. I want a new Amiga, but there is none on the horizon. What is there upcoming in the forseeable future?
Someone has to state the obvious and that someone is me!
 

Offline redrumloa

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Re: The $500 000 Question: How much is Amiga *worth*?
« Reply #53 on: September 17, 2006, 07:34:49 PM »
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i dont belittle your personal opinion or right therefor. but opposed to you i dont take the view of someone who got cheated. i dont feel the need to slam other users on their head because i myself feel miserable, but rather i try to show you the perspective that a potential investor could have.


Who says I feel cheated? I enjoyed my little experiment in the market and I made a profit, a small profit but a profit. Who's miserable? I'm just a realist who found the time / effort of a contracting market getting progressively worse to not be worth the effort.

Heck, I am still considering re-entering as a seller, but purely as a hobby. I hope one day the Amiga marlet can become like the C= 8bit market, which sadly is much healthier.
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Offline redfox

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Re: The $500 000 Question: How much is Amiga *worth*?
« Reply #54 on: September 17, 2006, 08:57:03 PM »
@Tomas

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    The last time I saw an Amiga computer being sold in a large retail store was in 1989.


That particular retail chain, Future Shop, has stores all across Canada and specializes in home entertainment.  They sell a full range of consumer electronics, as well as comuters, software and media.  They are very successful.  In 1989 they were selling the Amiga 500 bundled with a bunch of software.

I purchased my Amiga 2000HD from a much smaller retail chain that specialized in Amiga.  Saddly, that chain folded a few years later.  Eventually, I found a much smaller store operated by some Amiga enthusiasts who held in there until the late 1990s.

I purchased my Micro-A1 near the end of 2004 from the online retail portal for LiveWire Systems, the Canadian dealer for AmigaOne products.


---
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Offline TheMagicM

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Re: The $500 000 Question: How much is Amiga *worth*?
« Reply #55 on: September 18, 2006, 12:36:09 AM »
@stone:

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i dont know what your definition of 'a few' is, but millions of people isnt a few in my book. these are people to whom the word amiga rings a bell in one form or another, and for by far the largest part of these a very positive bell too, though most of them never even owned an amiga.


I'm sure they would have fond memories from the 80's and 90's.  I have fond memories of my C=64 and VIC-20.

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the fans isnt what cuts it anyway. you cant expect a company to base any kind of product on the tiny amiga fan base.


ok, but you were just talking about the millions... and MILLIONS of Amiga fans..ok they dont count.  nevermind.

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operatingsystems isnt rocket science


Really?  Tell that to the Friedens (sp?) or the MOS devel group.  Those are some of the smartest people working on AOS4 and MOS respectively.  But you're right, I bet you can make some sort of PlaystationOS (POS) (no pun intended..lol) that resembles AOS 4 or MOS "in about two weeks" right?

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and there hasnt been any revolutions in this area since the 80s. amigaos still holds nearly all of its strengths as it did then. nowadays since windows, linux and macos all have grown into unhandly mastodonts it holds even more value as a lightweight scaleable system.


MacOS/Linux EASILY trumps any incarnation of any Amiga OS out there currently.  Linux is as bloated as the user makes it...and it runs great on my powerhouse X86-64 machine.  Tell me something AmigaOS does now that Linux cannot.  (something worthwhile, not silly like dragging the wb screen down to reveal a seperate screen).  I can name plenty the other way around.

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as i wrote. its not a lot of money for any decent company.


By that assessment there should be companies coming out of the woodworks, but they're not.  I wonder why.

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Offline stopthegop

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Re: The $500 000 Question: How much is Amiga *worth*?
« Reply #56 on: September 18, 2006, 03:42:34 AM »
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MacOS/Linux EASILY trumps any incarnation of any Amiga OS out there currently. Linux is as bloated as the user makes it...and it runs great on my powerhouse X86-64 machine. Tell me something AmigaOS does now that Linux cannot. (something worthwhile, not silly like dragging the wb screen down to reveal a seperate screen). I can name plenty the other way around.


I can name one:  
*The ability to boot from ROM right out of the box.

I can name several things that Amiga is that Linux/Macos are not:
*elegant, intuitive and graceful.
*easy to understand and use for non-technical users.
*Fun.  Linux is a chore.
 
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Offline neon32

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Re: The $500 000 Question: How much is Amiga *worth*?
« Reply #57 on: September 18, 2006, 04:21:46 AM »
Not directly related to the OS, but an extremely and increasingly important factor in my opinion - Complete and totally silent operation. (apart from hard disk noise if you have a hard disk installed)
 

Offline TheMagicM

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Re: The $500 000 Question: How much is Amiga *worth*?
« Reply #58 on: September 18, 2006, 05:03:30 AM »
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I can name one:
*The ability to boot from ROM right out of the box.


You dont boot from a rom.  You still have to load workbench.

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I can name several things that Amiga is that Linux/Macos are not:
*elegant, intuitive and graceful.
*easy to understand and use for non-technical users.
*Fun. Linux is a chore.


Linux and MacOS are as elegant, intuitive and graceful as you make it.  If you're not creative then it will be as ugly as you make it.
True about the ease of use.  But then what do you expect out of a operating system as old as AOS with its limited features?  
I have a blast using Linux.  Its not a chore but thats because I know what I'm doing.  My dad, who is not linux savvy, switched from Windows to SuSE 10 linux and uses it every day without any problems.  


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Offline stopthegop

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Re: The $500 000 Question: How much is Amiga *worth*?
« Reply #59 from previous page: September 18, 2006, 05:54:53 AM »
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You dont boot from a rom. You still have to load workbench.


no, not normally.  but you can if you want to or need to, whereas in Linux you can't.    That was your question, "What can AOS do that Linux can't".   The ability to access files on a disk if the the os decides to quit working because an index file somewhere got corrupted or because of a virus is one of the Amiga's many virtues.  


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Its not a chore but thats because I know what I'm doing.


Thank you for proving my point.  If you have to "know what you're doing" to make it useful, then its not useful.  In fact its a direct contradiction to the first statement in the same paragraph;

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"Linux and MacOS are as elegant, intuitive and graceful..."


Not if you have to "know what you're doing" to "make it", it isn't.  A DIY kit is the antithesis of elegant.  How big is the user documentation for Linux?  Probably up to about a terrabyte by now..  If not, it will be soon.   Either way, its frigg'n huge.  You call that fun?  In no perversion of the term can it be called "intuitive".      


 


 
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