The $500 000 Question: How much is Amiga *worth*?

[snowman040]

Well I must admit that was brave one :-( 32million$ just for brand name. But Tulip did release products under Commodore name (OEM MP3 players, but hey), and what Amiga Inc. can say they produced in last 6 years worth more than 1 million ?

[jarrody2k]

stone wrote:

The games industry could leverage an Amiga brand license for retro releases on either modern platforms like PSP

and where would that bring us?

To revenue

Jarrod.

[jarrody2k]

stopthegop wrote:
@Stoned:

I totally agree with your point about the corrosive effect defeatism is having on the community and the future (yes, future) of Amiga OS.  There is a way out of this hole;  whats lacking is the collective will to make it happen.  I see the word "can't" in the forum way too often.  Usually when someone write's "can't", what they're really saying is "won't".

This really strikes a chord with me.  I really do believe Amiga could have done with Bill McEwen's business savvy and stubborn marketing at the very beginning of the last decade.

You can do a lot with very little... often you need to discover that big things come in small packages.  Or at least you must have the persuasive power to convince the big boys you've got something big.

Romanticism aside: Really, what do you think McEwen is marketing that is big enough to attract the attention of established market players?

Jarrod.

[Oli_hd]

The brand name if put up for auction would get somewhere in the low 5 figures. Maybe $10,000 - $20,000.

Im so waiting for the day that Amiga Inc comes up on Ebayn specially at $20,000 :-)

[TheMagicM]

@stone:

amiga to those companies and people i meet, is simplicity, elegance, fun and power. only few people know about the problems resolving around the amiga, and the laughing stock seems to be the idiot fans and nay sayers, with their pathetic limited views and their rediculous conspiracies. not the amiga itself. these forum posts are the only laughable thing really.

you and your friends need to step out of the 90's.   Only a few people know about the Amiga and its problems is because the rest of the fans left years ago.  The whole situation is disappointing but if you've followed the Amiga from day one through all its owners and broken promises then you'd realize what a laughing stock it is.

its a matter of keeping things in persepctive. there are a lot of companies similar to ibm that easily could put a couple hundred programmers behind amigaos a couple months to make amigaos fill out a desktop and embedded segment that noone else covers as efficiently.

Again, what company would want to do anything like that?  Tulip bought commodore and what did they do with it?  Since they bought it for $25mil obviously they had the resources to back any motherboard design etc but they didnt.  You ended up seeing a C=64 in a joystick and even they offloaded the C= brand.  The Amiga OS isnt anything thats so wanted like you're assuming.  In the past it was good in its prime.  Yeahronimo bought C= but cant afford to pay for it in one chunk so they are paying in payments..lol.  But thats what Tulip settled for..no other takers?   Maybe IO Interactive can plunk down the money since they have so much and port Amiga OS to the PS3?   I mean you have coders there dont you?  Should be a piece of cake.

Sorry to sound so negative but I see nothing of any value from any AI employee until there is proof, a live demo at a big show etc.  Too many broken promises and delusions of grandeur.  

-Alex

[neon32]

I completely agree with you stone and i'm glad you said all that. I mean $20,000 for the Amiga name? come on! I swear some of the people around here must secretly work for microsoft or something..

[Tomas]

The last time I saw an Amiga computer being sold in a large retail store was in 1989.

That is odd. :O It was definitely not like that here in Europe. The sales didnt really slow down until 94-95 or so which was because the owner was bankrupt and that game devs started withdrawing from the market.

[rassam1999]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NewTek

I wonder did Newtek have $500,000 revenue upon it's release of the Video Toaster? Just imagine if it didn't the success of the Amiga probably would have been much less, as the Video Toaster introduced new affordable technology and really got a lot of good 'free' press for the Amiga.

It's like WOW I feel guilty for saying Commodore killed the Amiga with bad marketing, at least they allowed 3rd parties to make cool things???!!!

Seriously I don't get the logic of the $500,000 revenus requirement. Shouldn't the test be simply "Tell me what your hardware product can do???".

Just think a genius in his/her garage could invent a real-life food synthesiser - that would re-arrange matter to create any food like they do in Star Trek. But, if they didn't have $500,000 in revenue Bill would say "sorry Amiga can't give you a license!"

*sigh* Why can't people learn from history? THIRD PARTY add-ons were what made the Amiga keep going all these years.

Really, we all know the Amiga was a great computer but can you imagine how much less success it would have had if Commodore was so strict to 3rd parties - Bill is starting to make me wish for the days of Commordore! What me worry?

---------------------------
Had a Brand new Amiga 500 when it was released
Later upgraded to an Amiga 1200
then got an Amiga CD32 & turned it into Amiga CD32/1200
Finally surrendered and got PC in 2001
Currently:
Alienware Aurora m9700 2GB ram, 200GB raid0, fingerprint scanner, usb GPS, & of course Amiga Forever.

Ahhh to dream of an Alienware Amiga...mmmmm mmmm good

[stone]

you and your friends need to step out of the 90's.   Only a few people know about the Amiga and its problems is because the rest of the fans left years ago.

what does being stuck in the 90s have to do with anything except some kind of childish insult?

i dont know what your definition of 'a few' is, but millions of people isnt a few in my book. these are people to whom the word amiga rings a bell in one form or another, and for by far the largest part of these a very positive bell too, though most of them never even owned an amiga.

the fans isnt what cuts it anyway. you cant expect a company to base any kind of product on the tiny amiga fan base. amiga would in many ways be better off without these 'fans' that does nothing but bring everyone down. the only positive thing is that the generel public doesnt take notice to those people.

The whole situation is disappointing but if you've followed the Amiga from day one through all its owners and broken promises then you'd realize what a laughing stock it is.

i have followed the amiga since the middle 80s. personally i see great strengths in the operatingsystem, but besides from that, i try to look at things from a buissness point of view and not that of a disgruntled user who feel let down by broken promisses.

what matters is the possiblities and the investments that needs to be done. what exactly is there to laugh about? the only thing thats worrying is leagal complications.

Again, what company would want to do anything like that?

its not a matter of what company wants to do it, but solely a matter of getting someone in on the idea since every company would want to 'do that' if they can see a profit.

there are several hundreds of possible customers in different companies. you sound like someone not sending the job application because you dont feel good enough. you'd be surprised if you actually got in touch with any of those companies.

The Amiga OS isnt anything thats so wanted like you're assuming.  In the past it was good in its prime.

what exactly has changed? operatingsystems isnt rocket science and there hasnt been any revolutions in this area since the 80s. amigaos still holds nearly all of its strengths as it did then. nowadays since windows, linux and macos all have grown into unhandly mastodonts it holds even more value as a lightweight scaleable system.

Maybe IO Interactive can plunk down the money since they have so much and port Amiga OS to the PS3?   I mean you have coders there dont you?  Should be a piece of cake.

as i wrote. its not a lot of money for any decent company. why do you insist on making it a huge deal when its a minor investment for someone with a vision? sure we have programmers and im sure we could do an operatingsystem too, but its hardly our scope of work.

Sorry to sound so negative but I see nothing of any value from any AI employee until there is proof, a live demo at a big show etc.  Too many broken promises and delusions of grandeur.

thank god its the disgruntled user who feels let down that is speaking. luckily buisneses see things in a different light.

/stone

[stopthegop]

stone wrote:

nowadays since windows, linux and macos all have grown into unhandly mastodonts it holds even more value as a lightweight scaleable system.

So true!  Preach on, 'brutha stone!  

[snowman040]

Ok shine some different light on us ? What Amiga Inc. can offer to someone that is worth millions ? Name ? Many people connect Amiga to video games, if remember the name at all. User base ? There is probably 100 000 users that would buy some new HW/SW if produced, so it's a lousy market share. Operating system that can compete with current: Windows, Linux,... ? :-( !

Tulip got a hell of a bargain for Commodore name, and if you read more about Tulips - you can find they are very often seen at courts - so I wouldn't be surprised if there is some money fraud behind all this.

[snowman040]

stopthegop wrote:
stone wrote:

nowadays since windows, linux and macos all have grown into unhandly mastodonts it holds even more value as a lightweight scaleable system.

So true!  Preach on, 'brutha stone!  

Lightweight scaleable system can get you 50 000, 60 000 hardcore users (BeOS, MorphOS, etc, etc). While XP and OSX have a bit more, walking into that battlefield takes much more than Amiga name and 20yr old OS...

[redrumloa]

Quote:
The only product I see a possibility of commercial success
would be a DTV type

that wouldnt be much of an amiga product. there is plenty of
room for the operating system on a wide host of different
hardware. good thing you arnt the one trying to move amiga
forward, eh?

Could I possibly be any worse than the FIVE companies
that have owned the Amiga brand over the last TWELVE
years? Anyone who thinks the market is healthy and Amiga Inc
is slaving away to make products the community wants has
obviously not been paying attention.

Quote:
I hate to be so negative, but I think that's the state of
the market and the brand name.

then dont be so negative. you dont seem to have any
arguments for your negativity except your view from your
bedroom window.

Hmm let's see, I helped run what was likely the top grossing
Amiga shop in 2003-2004. I'd bet a mint we grossed more than
Amiga Inc themselves during this time. We bought out the
remaining stock of a product that had been dead for years
(Prometheus) and sold every last piece. We were even
influential in getting new drivers to the Prometheus.

I'm no major player and never have been, but I have been in
the game. In this market there is NO major players and there
is NO serious market.

Since you issued the challenge, what have YOU done that
trumps MY right to have an opinion besides looking out your
basement window?

Quote:
    The Amiga as a brand has become a laughing stock.
where exactly? the only place its a laughing stock is among
those few with a different agenda. the amiga brand seems
very strong among common people as well as most enthusiasts.

amiga to those companies and people i meet, is simplicity,
elegance, fun and power. only few people know about the
problems resolving around the amiga, and the laughing stock
seems to be the idiot fans and nay sayers, with their
pathetic limited views and their rediculous conspiracies.
not the amiga itself. these forum posts are the only
laughable thing really.

It's called reality, take a deep breath. How big do you
really think this community is? How many of those people do
you really think would pony up to actually buy a product if
produced? The total "community" worldwide is in the (very)
low thousands. The active users who actually use and own
Amiga computers would be in the hundreds.

Prove to me otherwise? 2006 is almost over and what is left
of this very, very small community is bleeding away a few
users a day. What product will come out in 2007 to
reinvigorate the market? 2008? 2009? 2010? Hard facts
please, not over exuberant optimism, not religious speak.
Every year that has passed since C='s death has been worse
then the one before it. The market has been practically dead
for nearly a decade, for the last 5 years it has been
totally dead.

[stopthegop]

snowman040 wrote:

...Lightweight scaleable system can get you 50 000, 60 000 hardcore users (BeOS, MorphOS, etc, etc)....

You have a point.  In fact, I can think of two more to add to that list:  MacOS and Linux.  You don't consider these operating systems failures, do you?  Both, at one time, were ridiculed as instruments of the lunatic fringe.  Apple in the early 1990s was a basket-case on life support until Uncle Gates came to the rescue with a timely infusion of cash.  Linux was an exclusive club for many years.  Its only had real growth in the last 3-5 years.  So if Linux and Crapos can rise from the dead, so can Amiga.  

[redrumloa]

Quote:
    you and your friends need to step out of the 90's. Only a
few people know about the Amiga and its problems is because
the rest of the fans left years ago.

what does being stuck in the 90s have to do with anything
except some kind of childish insult?

i dont know what your definition of 'a few' is, but millions
of people isnt a few in my book. these are people to whom the
word amiga rings a bell in one form or another, and for by far
the largest part of these a very positive bell too, though
most of them never even owned an amiga.

No, TheMagicM is correct. Your head is in the 90's and that's no insult the only one here throwing insults is yourself. There are no "millions" of people, they've all moved on. They owned a product and when that product didn't fill their needs they moved on. None of these people will buy a substandard product for 10-100X price of a mainstream product. Only a handful of hobyists will and that handful keeps getting smaller with time.

Actually I disagree, your head is in the 80's, not the 90's. In the 80's a single person or 2 could cobble together something killer and make a mint. Nowadays it takes huge corporations with tons of researcgh, funding and quality control. It also takes buttloads of major partnerships, political connections and such. No one with even the slightest interest in the Amiga comes near to these requirements.

You can have your head in the clouds all you want, it won't change anything. People like you come and go. Come in raving how negative everyone is and how great everything will be shortly, and in a few months to a year when it doesn't pan out they quitely disapear without a word.

[redrumloa]

So if Linux and Crapos can rise from the dead, so can Amiga.

And who will do this and on what hardware? How will it get marketed?