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Author Topic: The $500 000 Question: How much is Amiga *worth*?  (Read 16197 times)

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Offline jarrody2kTopic starter

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Re: The $5 000 000 Question: How much is Amiga *worth*?
« Reply #14 on: September 16, 2006, 10:53:22 PM »
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Tomas wrote:
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The brand name if put up for auction would get somewhere in the low 5 figures. Maybe $10,000 - $20,000.

I honestly think the brand name would sell for more than that.
The Amiga brand might not be as strong as the commodore brand, but alot of gamers still have found memories of Amiga games.


That is true.  The games industry could leverage an Amiga brand license for retro releases on either modern platforms like PSP or even custom devices like Minimig.  A market that is alive and profitable at the current time.

Jarrod.
 

Offline jarrody2kTopic starter

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Re: The $500 000 Question: How much is Amiga *worth*?
« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2006, 10:56:57 PM »
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stopthegop wrote:
How much money are we talking here?  Five hundred thousand, fifty thousand, or five thousand?  Didn't follow the line about corrections and correcting the corrected corrections, etc..  Also, dollars or euros?


The stakes have been lowered, its now officially a 500 000 USD question.  I apologise for any inconvenience ;)

Jarrod.
 

Offline redfox

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Re: The $500 000 Question: How much is Amiga *worth*?
« Reply #16 on: September 16, 2006, 11:27:15 PM »
@jarrody2k

Quote:
There must be a clear understanding however that we are looking for people and businesses that currently have revenues that can support this business. We request a business plan, budget and current revenue figures that are at least $ 500,000.00 per year in revenue.
****

It is obvious to me that no small outfit just starting out is going to have revenues anywhere near this figure.  I have no idea if Troika, ACK, etc. could even qualify on their own.

BUT, what if Bill is talking about something else here? ...

An outfit like BestBuy or Wal~Mart or Sears (Canada) or Bay (Hudson's Bay Company, Canada) would easily make this kind of revenue.  So what if part of the revenue is from pots and pans, clothing, furniture, or large appliances (washing machines, clothes dryers, stoves, refrigerators).  Those companies could sell Amiga products along with the rest of the consumer electronics.  Maybe Troika, ACK, etc. could hook up with one of these large sales outlets.  Then all they need is a business plan and budget for the Amiga product line.

---
redfox
 

Offline jarrody2kTopic starter

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Re: The $500 000 Question: How much is Amiga *worth*?
« Reply #17 on: September 17, 2006, 12:09:43 AM »
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redfox wrote:
An outfit like BestBuy or Wal~Mart or Sears (Canada) or Bay (Hudson's Bay Company, Canada) would easily make this kind of revenue.  So what if part of the revenue is from pots and pans, clothing, furniture, or large appliances (washing machines, clothes dryers, stoves, refrigerators).  Those companies could sell Amiga products along with the rest of the consumer electronics.  Maybe Troika, ACK, etc. could hook up with one of these large sales outlets.  Then all they need is a business plan and budget for the Amiga product line.

---
redfox


Wouldn't it be a more obvious to source funding from a venture capatilist?  Walmart would hardly look at selling something unless it exists already.  Of course they are at the end of the production line.

Jarrod.
 

Offline Colin_Camper

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Re: The $500 000 Question: How much is Amiga *worth*?
« Reply #18 on: September 17, 2006, 12:24:29 AM »
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It is obvious to me that no small outfit just starting out is going to have revenues anywhere near this figure.


Not necessarily. Many people in this community are business people. It's not hard to envisage a small business turning over $500,000. Who's to say ACK or the Italians do not have such a backer. Perhaps Troika do not, yet, but again, Troika people live near London. The average house costs $500,000 there.

I can understand the quest for security of supply and support that Bill would want for us but it is slightly ironic given the previous coupon and eyetech situation.
Also Bill may note that a company offered to supply hardware for the OS4 partnership some time ago who definitely gross over $500,000 and are renowned for customer support - they are called Genesi. :-P
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Offline redrumloa

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Re: The $5 000 000 Question: How much is Amiga *worth*?
« Reply #19 on: September 17, 2006, 01:08:53 AM »
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Tomas wrote:
The Amiga brand might not be as strong as the commodore brand, but alot of gamers still have found memories of Amiga games.


The problem is the brand has not only withered on the vine, but has quite a lot of negative sentiment to it. The Amiga as a brand has become a laughing stock. I also think simply far too much time has passed. The only product I see a possibility of comercial success would be a DTV type product if done right. Even then I doubt it would sell anywhere near it's C64 DTV counterpart.

Who would buy the Amiga name now if auctioned? Someone from this community no doubt. They don't have the kind of deep pockets big companies have. I'll admit it could go for over $20,000, you never know. But I seriously doubt it would sell for anything even approaching $100,000. I hate to be so negative, but I think that's the state of the market and the brand name.
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Offline redrumloa

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Re: The $500 000 Question: How much is Amiga *worth*?
« Reply #20 on: September 17, 2006, 01:11:49 AM »
@redfox

Large retailers wouldn't give you or me the time of day, they only deal very high end with multinational corporations.
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Offline TheMagicM

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Re: The $5 000 000 Question: How much is Amiga *worth*?
« Reply #21 on: September 17, 2006, 01:18:18 AM »
@red:

I agree.   And you wont be seeing any Amiga computer at any big store like Best Buy/Wal Mart etc.  
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Offline redfox

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Re: The $500 000 Question: How much is Amiga *worth*?
« Reply #22 on: September 17, 2006, 02:24:27 AM »
Good points, guys.

The last time I saw an Amiga computer being sold in a large retail store was in 1989.

@Colin_Camper

Please don't think I am slamming Troika, ACK or the Italians.  I would be very happy indeed if all of them were successful in this market.  You're probably right about the $500,000 per year.  Having never been in business myself, I don't normally think in those dollar figures.

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redfox
 

Offline charliestu

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Re: The $500 000 Question: How much is Amiga *worth*?
« Reply #23 on: September 17, 2006, 07:10:25 AM »
  Unfortunately the Amiga etc name is worth nothing apart from as a purchase for retro-emulation on e.g. IBM etc PC clone.

  I love/love Amigas etc BUT (apart from when post-Commodore the brand name appeared in 1993-4 on Chelsea FC shirts before unfair stuffing in 1994 FA Cup Final) only the Commodore name - as evinced frequently by appearance on e.g. oriental computer-thangs - has any value.

  Below this 'state of the art' (before MS Vista...) PC on which I 'write' this I have several real Amigas in boxes AND my first ever PC purchase boxed up - the original PC Pentium P60 in COMMODORE 1995-1996 livery from Escom ...
 

Offline adonay

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Re: The $500 000 Question: How much is Amiga *worth*?
« Reply #24 on: September 17, 2006, 09:37:59 AM »
I do belive there are not that many companys having $500,000 USD wiling to support a little unsirtin company like A.inc After all remember A.inc is a dangerous investment for any invester as it has never shown it self to be a great investment. I can never belive they have made them self rich by selling those crappy mobile things (amiga anywere was it ?) .. Anyways if they are good enugh in their marketing they may and mark may be able to get somewere due too the huge Brandname they own but ha done so little to actually support. Other than this i belive A.inc has super poor management but please know these are my personal opinions hehe..

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Offline stone

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Re: The $500 000 Question: How much is Amiga *worth*?
« Reply #25 on: September 17, 2006, 10:13:15 AM »
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The total market for AmigaOS right now is the retrocomputing market. There are much more modern operating systems out there, including Linux which can be downloaded for free, which are much better choices for desktop and embedded applications.

the amiga market is what you make it to be. its only retro if nothing new gets added or noone steps up to lead it on. you cant do any serious buisness from a retromarket though, so its either growing or dying.

this entire thread seriously lacks any form of visions. its a good thing that most companies look for oppotunities opposed to you guys.

as for window, linux and macos to more modern is only correct to the extend that amigaos doesnt get any further development. with any even minor backing the amigaos holds a lot of strengths that can easily put it on par in all areas an surpass them in others.

as for them being better dekstop and embedded systems is entirely incorrect. neither of them really fits on embedded systems at all. windows even has to do a completly specialized version for it.

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The only product I see a possibility of comercial success would be a DTV type

that wouldnt be much of an amiga product. there is plenty of room for the operating system on a wide host of different hardware. good thing you arnt the one trying to move amiga forward, eh?

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I hate to be so negative, but I think that's the state of the market and the brand name.

then dont be so negative. you dont seem to have any arguments for your negativity except your view from your bedroom window.

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The Amiga as a brand has become a laughing stock.

where exactly? the only place its a laughing stock is among those few with a different agenda. the amiga brand seems very strong among common people as well as most enthusiasts.

amiga to those companies and people i meet, is simplicity, elegance, fun and power. only few people know about the problems resolving around the amiga, and the laughing stock seems to be the idiot fans and nay sayers, with their pathetic limited views and their rediculous conspiracies. not the amiga itself. these forum posts are the only laughable thing really.

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But I seriously doubt it would sell for anything even approaching $100,000

based on what facts? i think you could easily add a zero to that. the commodore brand sold for $32 million in 2004, so amiga would easily sell for 1 million.

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The games industry could leverage an Amiga brand license for retro releases on either modern platforms like PSP

and where would that bring us? exactly nowhere. at best it would be an income, but it wouldnt in any way drive amigaos forward or secure any kind of viable future use.

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An outfit like BestBuy or Wal~Mart or Sears (Canada) or Bay (Hudson's Bay Company, Canada) would easily make this kind of revenue

they would easily turn over 500.000 on a daily basis. possible even hourly. for some reason people seems to think 500.000 is a lot, when its really next to nothing. the 150 man company i work in, turn over 50.000 a day and we arnt exactly big by any means. yes, it excludes your average bedroom or two man company, but those companies cant do anything useful anyway. producing around 1000 amiga compatible motherboards really is irrelevant in creating a userbase or any kind of future to build upon.

personly i would like to see troika and other small companies produce hardware, but under no circumstances will such little scale make or breake anything.

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Unfortunately the Amiga etc name is worth nothing apart from as a purchase for retro-emulation on e.g. IBM etc PC clone.

what exactly are you guys basing sentences like this on?

the amiga brand might not be worth anything to a company like ibm, but the operating system sure is. while ibm daily buys up bunches of smaller companies with less relevancy than amiga, other companies could easily turn in millions based on the amiga name. and ibm is just an example. there are bunches of similar companies that would have an interest.

its a matter of keeping things in persepctive. there are a lot of companies similar to ibm that easily could put a couple hundred programmers behind amigaos a couple months to make amigaos fill out a desktop and embedded segment that noone else covers as efficiently.

there isnt any reason to be afraid of multimillion dollar deals or be afraid that amigaos doesnt offer anything. there are plenty of oppotunities and putting down a few million a day is peanuts for any serious buisness.

you are only limited by your own inefficiency, lack of selfconfidence and lack of understanding of how the world turns around and how companies operate.

/stone
 

Offline snowman040

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Re: The $500 000 Question: How much is Amiga *worth*?
« Reply #26 on: September 17, 2006, 11:10:13 AM »
I don't think Commodore brand was sold for 32million$. Escom bought Commodore and Amiga for 25mill$ with many things left to sell (A1200s, A4000s, semi-produced machines, etc...)...

Amiga today could be worth 1 million $, with all  IP/Patents/Brand, and ongoing 'development'.

BUT

Only if buyer gets:

- All rights to produce and sell Amiga OS, Hardware,...
- No restrictions on porting Amiga OS to other platforms (x86)
- Detailed HW/SW project documentation

This 500.000$ licence fee is very interesting, what company would pay 1 million $ (licence and HW R&D) to run OS4 that don't exist ? How much units they have to sell (and at what price) to come to any profit ?

P.S If Amiga brand is so valuable - how comes that Amiga Inc. isn't sold already ? Freescale is sold for 17.6 billion $, what would be the problem to throw 10-20-50 million for Amiga name? Common sense I guess - Commodore brand ISN'T making any money to it's owners (at least not millions). Brand is something people remeber - product and quality is what they stick to. Look at DFI, XFX, Club3D - newborn companies that sell thousands units of PC HW and really don't have some 'catchy' brand - but have high quality.
 

Offline stopthegop

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Re: The $500 000 Question: How much is Amiga *worth*?
« Reply #27 on: September 17, 2006, 11:46:59 AM »
@Stoned:

I totally agree with your point about the corrosive effect defeatism is having on the community and the future (yes, future) of Amiga OS.  There is a way out of this hole;  whats lacking is the collective will to make it happen.  I see the word "can't" in the forum way too often.  Usually when someone write's "can't", what they're really saying is "won't".
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Offline stone

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Re: The $500 000 Question: How much is Amiga *worth*?
« Reply #28 on: September 17, 2006, 11:48:06 AM »

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I don't think Commodore brand was sold for 32million$. Escom bought Commodore and Amiga for 25mill$ with many things left to sell (A1200s, A4000s, semi-produced machines, etc...)...

regardless, it was sold for that amount of money.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/12/29/tulip_sells_commodore/

i realise some of the numbers and millions sounds like a lot, but really, its next to nothing compared to large scale buisness.

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This 500.000$ licence fee is very interesting, what company would pay 1 million $ (licence and HW R&D) to run OS4 that don't exist ? How much units they have to sell (and at what price) to come to any profit ?

its not a fee. its not an expense to the company, its merely a treshold that amiga takes into consideration as to how capable the company is.

/stone
 

Offline snowman040

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Re: The $500 000 Question: How much is Amiga *worth*?
« Reply #29 from previous page: September 17, 2006, 12:14:22 PM »
Well I must admit that was brave one :-( 32million$ just for brand name. But Tulip did release products under Commodore name (OEM MP3 players, but hey), and what Amiga Inc. can say they produced in last 6 years worth more than 1 million ?