Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Author Topic: Speed ok amiga network  (Read 1613 times)

Description:

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline amiga4001Topic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Sep 2004
  • Posts: 537
    • Show only replies by amiga4001
Speed ok amiga network
« on: August 07, 2006, 11:28:48 PM »
Just setup a small network between to amiga's.
One a cyberstormppc with 060 and mediatorfastethernet card.
The other a A4000 with cyberstorm mk2 040/40 Mhz also mediator but normal ethernet card.
When I copy a large file of >30 MB I reach a speed of about 250 Kb/s is this maximum ok for this setup?
Could I reach a higher transfer with a Fastethernet card in the 2nd 4000?
Or is the processor bottleneck?
 

Offline stopthegop

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2006
  • Posts: 831
    • Show only replies by stopthegop
Re: Speed ok amiga network
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2006, 03:20:58 AM »
You should be able to get *at least* 1.2M(BYTE)/second between the two machines over ethernet, I would think.  I have an A4k with an X-surf card and I am able to ftp back and forth with a wintel box at that speed.  Its faster by about 100kilobytes/sec when I use a crossover cable and have the amiga and peecee plugged right into each other vs. patching them through a hub or switch.  I would make sure you don't have one or both of the Amiga's set to half-duplex and that they are both set to 10Mb transfer (full-duplex) with identical packet size definitions on each machine.  I use asynchronous transfer/no parity bit/256k block size/10mb xfer/full-duplex.  250k/sec is too slow, imho - something ain't right.  I can go that fast (almost, anyway) with a null modem cable over serial -- with a high speed serial card installed in both machines, that is.   :)
Primary:
A4000T. Phase5 PPC604e-233mhz/060-66mhz. Mediator, Z3 Fastlane, Voodoo5, Delfina, X-Surf, AD516, Peggy Plus.

Collection:
A4000D, A1200, A500, Milan060 (Atari clone), Atari MegaSTE, Atari TT030, C64, C128, Mattel Aquarius, (2) HP Jornada....
 

Offline LoadWB

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jul 2006
  • Posts: 2901
  • Country: 00
    • Show only replies by LoadWB
Re: Speed ok amiga network
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2006, 05:49:06 AM »
I'm not so sure about that.  With my WarpEngine 4040 with Samba 2.2 on an SFS volume I could get a max of about 263k/s to an Athlon 2800 Windows XP box.  That speed increased when I moved to the CyberStorm MKIII 060, though I don't have a concrete number to back that up right now.  It's also much more peppy responding to Windows Networking.

Of course a lot of that difference could be simply in the SCSI interface and hard drive.  On the 4040 I used its narrow SCSI with a 50-pin IBM 18GB DeskStar.  On the MKIII I'm using a its wide SCSI with a 68-pin 18GB IBM.

How much native PPC code are you running when doing your transfers?  I wonder if that changes anything.  Even so, I expect FTP transfers to be faster than Windows Networking... Windows Networking does not bandwidth efficient at all.  Also, are you talk 250kBYTES/s in your serial transfers?  That's like 2.5Mbits/s, and I'd hazard to say you're not getting that over serial.
 

Offline Jiffy

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Join Date: May 2003
  • Posts: 474
    • Show only replies by Jiffy
    • http://clausewitz.nl
Re: Speed ok amiga network
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2006, 07:51:43 AM »
Quote

stopthegop wrote:
You should be able to get *at least* 1.2M(BYTE)/second between the two machines over ethernet, I would think.

1.2 MB/s is about the absolute theoretical max you can get over 10 Mbps ethernet and I seriously doubt you get this kind of transferspeeds on any classic Amiga. 250-350 KB/s is much more likely for normal transfers, transferspeeds higher than 0.5 MB/s are to be, dare I say, frowned upon in most cases. Even with large files.

Quote

250k/sec is too slow, imho - something ain't right.  I can go that fast (almost, anyway) with a null modem cable over serial -- with a high speed serial card installed in both machines, that is.   :)

I find that higly unlikely to say the least... Which high speed serial card are you talking about?  
Life sucks. Then you die. Then they throw mud in your face. Then you get eaten by worms. Be happy it happens in that order... My Amiga 1200
 

Offline amiga4001Topic starter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Sep 2004
  • Posts: 537
    • Show only replies by amiga4001
Re: Speed ok amiga network
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2006, 08:11:16 AM »
Mmmh,
I'll see if I can find a FastEthernet card for the machine.
Let's see if the speed rises a bit.
There is also some problem with the scsi harddisk on the low spec amiga cause it is taking about twice as long to get the same file to there.So around 125KB/s.
Maybe it is set to asynchron?
I'll check that out also.
It also has gor a voodoo5 in the mediator and is not to bad to surf the net with actually.
 

Offline alewis

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Join Date: Jul 2006
  • Posts: 176
    • Show only replies by alewis
Re: Speed ok amiga network
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2006, 10:08:01 PM »
Long post - but DONT set async transfer mode, it is waaay slow! See below

There are a number of factors affecting transfer speed between two machines

Hardware:
"Speed" of source/target medium; latency, rotational speed, medium<->interface transfer speed, sync/asyn mode

Device access method; PIO, DMA, etc

Bus bandwidth and contention; ie the speed of the computer bus, and the contention from other devices on the bus

Software:
Filing system used
Fragmentation
Cache

Network:
Topology; bus, ring, or star
Bandwidth; 10mbit -> 1gig
Contention/switch speed; hub or switch speed

Obviously, you can't transfer data over a network faster than the slowest device can read or write it. And Amiga SCSI disks are slow; in general being 10mb SCSI-2 devices. The max bandwidth on the SCSI bus is limited to 10MB/sec, including command overhead, and many SCSI-2 drives cannot transfer data between the drive and the host adaptor (SCSI card) at this rate anyway. Multiple drives on Amiga SCSI cards /could/ result in a further slow down if the card does not support command queing and disconnect/reconnect. The former allows a number of commands to "queue" on the controller, and even be sorted by device. The later allows a "slow" device to recieve a command, relinguish the bus, excute the command and read/write data, and then send it over the bus. Latency and rotational speed speak for themselves, but again, the lower the latency and higher the rotational speed, the nimbler the drive. SCSI-2 drives are, in general, 3600-5400rpm disks, with perhaps some of the "high-end" [of the day] touching 7200.

Data transfer between the card and the controller is either synchronous or asynchronous. Synchronous is faster, as the devices (counting the controller as a device) can send ACKs at the same time as receiving data. In async mode, each block of data is received and then ACK'ed, with the sender awaiting an ACK before sending the next block.

How the card sends data is another factor. DMA transfer are faster than non-DMA; in the former, the card controls the data transfer and sends data direct to memory. In non-DMA, the CPU carries out the transaction. Depending on your processor, non-DMA can actually be faster than DMA, at the expense of CPU utilisation. However, this can be outweighed as the CPU also has to control the network transfer. This may seem strange in todays PC world, where uDMA-133 drives rule, and NICs are appearing which off-load network activity and IP stack processing.

Bus - ZorroII has a max bandwidth, of, erm, I forget, and ZorroIII is only, what, 33mb/sec? Or lower? Either way, that bandwidth is also shared with any other device on the bus, such as a graphics card, and of course the network card. Bus contention means something has to wait it's turn.

Software - at a low level, the filing system is a bottleneck. FFS has limits to how fast it can read/write/create files. PFS improved on this, AFS even more so. Not just writing the data, but also updating the directory blocks.

Fragmentation is important, and is worsened given the hardware limitations. A slow drive, with target data all over it (or free space in non-contiguous blocks scattered over the drive) is going to be way way slower than a slow drive with contiguous data or free space. Even a fast drive is impacted by fragmentation.

Cache. If you have a large block of memory as a write cache, this can perhaps be filled quicker than directly writing to a slow device, especially in conjunction with a large read cache on the spource machine. Instead of reading in spurts (waiting an ACK from the target machine as it receives and then writes each block), the source drive can fill the cache, which is then sent over the wire, into the cache at the other end. The logical transfer completes quicker.

Topology. Obviously 10mbit has less bandwidth than 100mbit. Cheapernet (one long bit of co-ax) is way slow, only one device can transmit at a time. Less obvious is that a hub network, using RG-45, is logically the same as a single piece of co-ax, and only one device can talk at a time. Two devices try, and the result is a collision, abort, and retry. Cheap hubs may introduce network latency, as the hub may not work at 10bit speed. The same applies, albeit to a lesser degree, when using the old 100mbit hubs.

Switches are the answer to this. They segment the network so any two devices can talk direct to each other, and 50% of the ports can be active at once (although cheap switches may slow down when this actually happens!). A good, reliable, full-speed switch is the Dell 2716; 16port 10/100/1000 gigabit switch, full-speed fabric, web managable, and only costs £125 in UK... Converted me from Cisco (for home use) at that price.

Overall. I remember benchmarking several SCSI controller and drive combos in the eary 90's... I thought 800kb/sec was fast then... some were as slow as 80kb/sec. Sorta pales in comparison with todays drives!

How to increase speed.

Check SCSI bus is set to SYNC transfer
Check maxtransfer mask is set to the optimal level (google for this, depending on hardware)
Benchmark the drive and controller, and if funds allow, upgrade.
Ensure the drives are optimised and defragged. This allows for the quickest reads/writes at DOS level.
Consider AFS instead of FFS
If you have the memory, add a 3rd party disk cache program
Tweak network settings; now depending on stack/card driver/card this can be 1512, 1514, or 1524 bytes.
Review network topology; in order of bandwidth; bus (co-ax), hub, switch. Invest in a switch, especially if you have multiple machines. And if you are using GIGe, then get a decent GIGe switch such as the Dell.