Apollo 1260 slow as 1240

[Xanxi]

Hello.

I have recently acquired an Apollo 1260 board, which CPU is a 680EC060-060 currently clocked at 50 Mhz with a 50 Mhz quartz.

As discussed by someone on another apollo thread, my jumpers are set to 060 ON, RAM ON SCSI OFF and 040 CLK (won't boot on 060 setting).

The problem is this board does not outperform my previous 1240@40Mhz as it should.

Maybe a library problem: i have installed from an apollo driver disk found on internet 68060.library version 60.0, 68040 library version 60.0 and a so called 68o4o.library version 37.30.

Sysinfo give me about 28000 dhrystones with this board, equivalent to a fast 68040, and SysSpeed about 46 MIPS, reporting it as a 10Mhz CPU.

Strange!

Can someone with this board help a bit?

Thanks.

[glitch]

Sounds like a library issue to me.  However, didn't either the '040 or the '060 version use a divide by two circuit for the oscillator?  Perhaps it has the wrong speed of oscillator - it might need a 100MHz for 50MHz operation.  Someone with an Apollo can surely clear this up quickly though.

Good luck.

[Brian]

Sounds to me like the card might not work propperly... if you can't jumper it to 060 with that is the CPU but is stuck with 040 clock that meens your 060 is only running at 25Mhz (as 040 clock is half the crystal).

[spectprof]

The library issue sounds correct -- I had headaches with it for a few weeks, now that I think about it.  Now that I have a little time, I will do some more library digging online and see what I find!

[ChaosLord]

Did you buy this board used?

From a HaxX0r?

It kinda sounds like the board is running the 060 at 25Mhz.

Also, how did it get an EC060?

I thought all Apollo 060 cards had full 060 as mine does?

[Xanxi]

Yes it's a second (third?) hand board and i don't know if it is a genuine board or a hacked/upgraded board. It seems that the Apollo is able to run LC and EC 060 and a fast version @ 75Mhz is known.

The manual says to use the CLK jumper on 040 with a 040 CPU or a 66Mhz 060 CPU, or on 060 with a 50Mhz 060 CPU.

Note that i have tried a 80 Mhz quartz from my 1240@40Mhz on this board to see if it would boot, and it does not. If the PCU was downclocked to 40 Mhz it should have, but surely not à 80Mhz, then i think it gets the full clock and not half of it.

[MarkWatson]

Brian wrote:
Sounds to me like the card might not work propperly... if you can't jumper it to 060 with that is the CPU but is stuck with 040 clock that meens your 060 is only running at 25Mhz (as 040 clock is half the crystal).

I thought that was for the front side bus and a common configuration for the Apollos. i.e. the 060 talks to RAM at 25MHz and runs internally at 50MHz.

Am I wrong?

Mark

[PG]

Mark, you are correct.. :-)
With a 060 cpu the Apollo should have the 060 jumper closed but the 040/060 CLOCK jumper set in 040 position.
With this setting you tell the card it has a 060 cpu onboard and the FSB is cpu clock /2.

The reason for this is that the Apollo is not stable at higher FSB than 40Mhz, thats why a 50Mhz 060 operates with 50Mhz internally and with 25Mhz FSB.

The "good" thing with this is that a MC68060RC50 can operate at 80Mhz with 40Mhz FSB on this card, a really nice feature...

[Xanxi]

Sure, but how about the libs?

by the way, notice that the 50Mhz version pictured at the BBoAH has its clk jumper closed on 060.

[PG]

Xanxi wrote:
Yes it's a second (third?) hand board and i don't know if it is a genuine board or a hacked/upgraded board. It seems that the Apollo is able to run LC and EC 060 and a fast version @ 75Mhz is known.

The manual says to use the CLK jumper on 040 with a 040 CPU or a 66Mhz 060 CPU, or on 060 with a 50Mhz 060 CPU.

Note that i have tried a 80 Mhz quartz from my 1240@40Mhz on this board to see if it would boot, and it does not. If the PCU was downclocked to 40 Mhz it should have, but surely not à 80Mhz, then i think it gets the full clock and not half of it.

Its NOT a genuine board, No Apollo:s came with a EC cpu!
Did it come with a socket from the factory?
If it did, its most propably a Apollo 1260/75 LC card you have.
If it is, the libraries you have found most propably wont work, because this card has a different firmware (eprom) than the other Apollo 1260 cards.
Originally it came with a LC cpu (no FPU) and a Install Disk specially designed for this card.

If someone has upgraded this card, lets hope they had the skills to do it and professional desoldering equipment.
The through hole platings is ultra sensitive and are so easily destroyed.
The card might work but youll notice the lack of function if one or more connections are broken.
I know, i have said this before.. :-)

If your card is a factory made Apollo 1260/75LC with a socket for the cpu, lucky you!
Then you could replace your EC cpu with a MC68060RC50 cpu, buy a new eprom from me (if the eprom is socketed) and clock your cpu at 80Mhz (with a cooler) 100% stable and you will also have MMU and FPU...

You could PM me for details if youre interested.

Edit:

I stand corrected, after PM contact with Xanxi it seems that some cards were sold with EC Cpu from the factory!

[PG]

Xanxi wrote:
Sure, but how about the libs?

by the way, notice that the 50Mhz version pictured at the BBoAH has its clk jumper closed on 060.

I know, some card were sold with the CLOCK jumper in the 060 position.
If you want to try the 060 CLOCK setting you must also change position of one SMD resistor, besides from the jumper setting.
I dont think your card will work stable at 50Mhz though, the board isnt designed for higher FSB than 40Mhz.
If you want you could UNDERCLOCK your card to 40Mhz with the FSB = cpu clock setting, it will work.

[Xanxi]

Well, i read on internet that Motorola has shipped some full 060 under the marking EC060. As a matter of fact, benchmark programs seem to find MMU and FPU with this board.

Still slow as hell though.

[PG]

Ah, ok!
Then the librarys included in this install disk should work:

Apollo060.dms

Dont bother if you cant get the Installer to work, just copy the libs to your libs drawer.

[Angus]

I didn't think sysinfo could measure an 060's performance properly anyway.

I think you want a file called mips or something that gives a proper figure of an 060's performance.

I maybe confused here, but I'm pretty sure the above is (or was) the case.

[Xanxi]

Thanks to PG and his special 060LC libraries, i have gained almost 20 MIPS to shine at 65 MIPS, a value rather normal for a 060@50 Mhz.

However, i am still unsure this CPU has really no MMU and FPU or if it is a full 060.
Indeed, RemApollo, which use MMU, seems to be working.
AmigaAMP, which exist in both normal and noFPU version, is working in both if i use the correct libraries.

So how comes this cpu is faster with LC libs if it is a full CPU?

Any way to truly test FPU and MMU?