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Offline irishmike

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Re: Time to Move On
« Reply #29 on: July 09, 2006, 11:57:18 PM »
Ahhh, but lets not forget that there was a complete rethink to MacOS in the 1990's (exact date of switch from OS 9 to 10 as a whole evades me currently).   Now MacOS X is really just a pretty face on top of good old FreeBSD!   I always liked the stability of the *nix boxes I worked with.

I am currently going to be re-acquiring my Mac Mini (PPC) back very soon and I am more than happy to be using AmigaOS (soon to be 3.9) and MacOS X 10.4.6 for my day to day operations.

The whole Amiga experience for me is to be able to play some games that I liked when I had DOS 6.22 running.   The Miggie just actually runs them better.

Although it is my dream to see Amiga make a comeback as a modern OS, it would (as MacOS X did) loose some of the charm that makes it what it is.  While MacOS X is by far superior to any previous MacOS, it is not the same.  I think that if Amiga does make a comeback, it will need to make the hard decision to be "modern" as well.  That means you'll have two camps:  classic Amiga and the new AmigaOS.  (This is compared to those who run classic MacOS (9.1 or earlier) and those who run MacOS X.

Having been the president of my local Macintosh User Group, I can say that there are indeed fierce supporters of pre-MacOS X operating systems.  The applications that they can not live without did not make it into OS X.  I think we would definitely see the same thing here.

But I agree that we should enjoy retro computing and actually should make sure that as my generation moves forward, that "the kids" know what was so that they may appreciate what is.   This is my whole motivation for the projects I am working on involving Amigas.

plus, the whole idea of "Remember when computing was fun?" is why we still use our machines.  

My final thought for this posting is:  What makes a computer usable is subjective.  It depends on what the owner of the machine wants to accomplish and his or her needs.  If the Amiga fills the needs of the owner, why not use it as your primary machine.  If it can not fulfill your needs, then consider another platform.  I like Macintosh very much, but it will not (without an emulator anyhow) do what my Amiga can do for me, Hence the Amiga fulfills my need for playing my retro games and probably could fulfill most of my other needs for Word Processing, etc... but what it does not do (to my satisfaction) is handle my music (there is no match to iTunes anywhere IMHO!).   SO I will always need my Macintosh as well.

Point condensed:  If your computer works for you the way you need it to, then why stop using it?

\\"When we ask for advice, we are usually looking for an accomplice.\\"
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Offline Jose

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Re: Time to Move On
« Reply #30 on: July 10, 2006, 01:37:23 AM »
Eventhough there are some tasks for wich we don't have uptodate programs (yet), a classic machine is still a very good choice for plenty tasks today. You can use PageStream to do desktop publishing on a pro level, specially if you use it in combination with ImageFX, wich rules on the image processing camp. For developing you can use CubicIDE wich has a ton of useable features (CygnusEd rules as far as resource usage is concerned , but it's not an IDE). The list goes on (I'm tired:))...
\\"We made Amiga, they {bleep}ed it up\\"
 

Offline dammy

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Re: Time to Move On
« Reply #31 on: July 10, 2006, 03:13:14 AM »
Quote
You know, because of licencing issues, no available tech docs , politics, and all the other crap that keeps the flames going around here.


Don't forget the bloated egos.  Must never forget those.  

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Offline Matt_H

Re: Time to Move On
« Reply #32 on: July 10, 2006, 04:27:37 AM »
The fact that OS4 system development is ongoing in the face of no publicly available hardware suggests that there's a lot more happening behind the scenes that we end-users don't know about.

I'm confident that something will appear "eventually", but the question is, how long does your patience last for such a timeframe? Mine evidently lasts a really long time and I'm willing to wait. My classic systems are an enjoyable hobby and good enough for what I need to do with them as a primary computer: email, simple web, word processing, music, the occasional image, and games. For me, video encoding and DVD recording are luxuries that I don't really need. I'll get into them when the Amiga supports them. It happens when it happens.

Obviously if you need this sort of functionality immediately, then you need a more modern primary system! Keep your Amigas as a hobby if you're so inclined, but ultimately, use the system that best serves your needs.

I prefer enjoyability over functionality, others probably prefer the opposite. Hence, your primary system is revealed!
 

Offline HellCoder

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Re: Time to Move On
« Reply #33 on: July 10, 2006, 11:41:19 AM »
If all complaining people get there heads together and start building the application they desire so much things will be alot better for them.

 

Offline Waccoon

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Re: Time to Move On
« Reply #34 on: July 10, 2006, 11:46:09 AM »
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neofree:  1. Choose an existing or create a new Open PPC motherboard as the hardware for OS4.

They already chose an existing design for AmigaOne.  It was still buggy and expensive.

Make their own design?  Buggy and SUPER expensive.

C'mon, people gotta admit the new Intel Conroe processors are looking pretty good...

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TheMagicM:  I think too many people are expecting a new piece of hardware to come out and then the "Amiga" will enjoy some sort of rebirth or out-of-the-dead experience. Its not going to happen.

Hardware is just a means to an end.  Unless there's real excitement about what the OS can do, it won't go anywhere.

Hyperion is bonkers if they think holding off for a good hardware rollout is going to make a slam-dunk showing.  They need to focus on things that will grab the geeks -- things other OSes can't do.  You know, like, make a brilliant new shell that makes Bash look like machine language, or something that FINALLY obsoletes FTP and NFS, in favor of transparrent connections, like what Plan9 was doing.  I'm shocked to see that MacOSX still uses NFS for logging into other computers though the window manager!  WTF?!

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neofree:   My interest in Mac lately is you cant browse the net without getting clobbered with spyware or viruses.

I've been virus free for 10 years.  I don't recall having any spam problems for at least 2, probably longer.

Use Firefox or Opera, plus some common sense, and you won't have problems.  Period.

Oh yeah, and get rid of Norton if you have it.  In my experience, it will *destroy* your Windows machine.  I hate Norton Anything with a passion.

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motorollin:  AInc/Hyperion/whoever he hell is developing AOS now are fools to be holding on to OS4. OS4 with a nice installer to allow it to run on a Mac would sell tonnes of copies.

There's too much idealism, not enough ideas.

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irishmike:  The whole Amiga experience for me is to be able to play some games that I liked when I had DOS 6.22 running. The Miggie just actually runs them better.

No kidding.  I completely forgot how painful MS-DOS programs really were until I got DOSBox to run some old games.

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irishmike:  plus, the whole idea of "Remember when computing was fun?" is why we still use our machines.

It was fun because it was all so new.  These days, you just have glossy interfaces covering up the warts.  I don't presume OS4 is any more "fun" than Windows.  The design is just too old.  No matter how much Windows aggrivates me, going from Win2K to OS3 is a brain numbing experience.

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HellCoder:  If all complaining people get there heads together and start building the application they desire so much things will be alot better for them.

An OS is a platform for tools.  Without the right tools, it's a lot harder to write applications.
 

Offline uncharted

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Re: Time to Move On
« Reply #35 on: July 10, 2006, 11:46:48 AM »
@hellcoder

Those who can do.

Those than can't {bleep} and moan that someone else hasn't done it yet.
 

Offline HellCoder

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Re: Time to Move On
« Reply #36 on: July 10, 2006, 11:56:38 AM »
Complaining is passive and doesn't help, only pisses off those who still enjoy it. (Me for example) If you want there is still alot to learn, and the Amiga can provide that too! If you can't program, why not learn and make that what you want. You'll be surprised how much joy it gives you!
 

Offline motorollin

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Re: Time to Move On
« Reply #37 on: July 10, 2006, 12:19:06 PM »
Quote
HellCoder wrote:
If you can't program, why not learn and make that what you want. You'll be surprised how much joy it gives you!

Sure, I'll learn to write apps for OS4 one of these readily-available AmigaOne boards :roll:

--
moto
Code: [Select]
10  IT\'S THE FINAL COUNTDOWN
20  FOR C = 1 TO 2
30     DA-NA-NAAAA-NAAAA DA-NA-NA-NA-NAAAA
40     DA-NA-NAAAA-NAAAA DA-NA-NA-NA-NA-NA-NAAAAA
50  NEXT C
60  NA-NA-NAAAA
70  NA-NA NA-NA-NA-NA-NAAAA NAAA-NAAAAAAAAAAA
80  GOTO 10
 

Offline HellCoder

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Re: Time to Move On
« Reply #38 on: July 10, 2006, 12:27:09 PM »
Is that a complaint ?
 :-D
 

Offline motorollin

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Re: Time to Move On
« Reply #39 on: July 10, 2006, 12:30:16 PM »
Definitely not. I would hate for anybody to think I was complaining  :-P

My point is that it's all very well asking people to be proactive and develop for the platform, but how are they supposed to do that if they can't but the platform in the first place?

--
moto
Code: [Select]
10  IT\'S THE FINAL COUNTDOWN
20  FOR C = 1 TO 2
30     DA-NA-NAAAA-NAAAA DA-NA-NA-NA-NAAAA
40     DA-NA-NAAAA-NAAAA DA-NA-NA-NA-NA-NA-NAAAAA
50  NEXT C
60  NA-NA-NAAAA
70  NA-NA NA-NA-NA-NA-NAAAA NAAA-NAAAAAAAAAAA
80  GOTO 10
 

Offline HellCoder

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Re: Time to Move On
« Reply #40 on: July 10, 2006, 12:34:27 PM »
Uh..
Well, I haven't got OS4 nor do I have an AmigaONE, but the software I wrote runs on it. I don't want to believe that it's the Amiga his own platform that is stopping it for growing futher.
 

Offline coldfish

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Re: Time to Move On
« Reply #41 on: July 10, 2006, 12:38:32 PM »
"Time to Move On"

It was time to move on 10-15 years ago, so what?  

Old stuff is fun, from a time when computer tech was more diverse and exotic instead of mundane and boring like it is now.  Console tech continues to be innovative and interesting, but desktop tech is, meh.

Oh yeah and, +1 to everything Waccoon said in his last post.

 

Offline CLS2086

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Re: Time to Move On
« Reply #42 on: July 10, 2006, 01:09:36 PM »
+1 to everything Waccoon said in his last post for me too..

You expect too much for OS4. Take MOS and put the "WB"3.9 instead of Ambient, put OS4Emu and you have an "OS4" more Amiga 68k and PPC compatible than a pure OS4...

About porting to MAC, forgot about Apple licences fees  :rtfm: .

About new licensing hardware, forgot about Eyetech exclusivity  :rtfm: (you can read some agreement in late 2001/2002..)..

About using OS4 on something else than CPPC and Aone, forgot about A.Inc and Eyetech exclusivity licensing :rtfm: (you can also read some agreement in late 2001/2002..).

About a modern browser, forgot about that if it was possible it would be already done on 68k and MorphOS !  :rtfm: .

About a new official hardware, forgot about A. RedHouse interview in June 2005  :rtfm: (but you can read some agreement in late 1999 with Genesi..).

You never see and try a long time OS4 and MorphOS, so try them like i did first !  :rtfm:

Amiga is an hobby system, and will stay as is. This is why lots of people are still making 68k programs that run on classic AOS and MorphOS, and sometimes under OS4...
Keep the Faith !
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Offline motorollin

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Re: Time to Move On
« Reply #43 on: July 10, 2006, 02:06:33 PM »
Quote
CLS2086 wrote:
About porting to MAC, forgot about Apple licences fees  :rtfm: .

I don't accept that as a reason for not porting OS4 to run on a Mac. Do you think Linux developers pay Apple a license fee for the privilege of porting Linux to Apple hardware? I don't think so. So why would AmigaOS be any different? The only problem with porting to Apple hardware is drivers, but that's no excuse when Linux PPC drivers already exist.

--
moto
Code: [Select]
10  IT\'S THE FINAL COUNTDOWN
20  FOR C = 1 TO 2
30     DA-NA-NAAAA-NAAAA DA-NA-NA-NA-NAAAA
40     DA-NA-NAAAA-NAAAA DA-NA-NA-NA-NA-NA-NAAAAA
50  NEXT C
60  NA-NA-NAAAA
70  NA-NA NA-NA-NA-NA-NAAAA NAAA-NAAAAAAAAAAA
80  GOTO 10
 

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Re: Time to Move On
« Reply #44 from previous page: July 10, 2006, 02:07:55 PM »
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The only problem with porting to Apple hardware is the problem of the x86 CPU's used inside them