Newtek Video Toaster 4000 (PAL version)

[PatriCCk]

Hello,

I noticed that all VideoToaster boards on biddingsites uses NTSC videosignals. Is there a PAL version available?
:-?

PatriCCk
The Netherlands

[tonyvdb]

Hi PatriCCk, Welcome to AO

Sadly Newtek never made a Pal virsion of the Toaster for the Amiga. I would think that if the Amiga would have stuck around longer it may have come out but as far as I know it never was in the plans.

[Tigger]

PatriCCk wrote:
Hello,

I noticed that all VideoToaster boards on biddingsites uses NTSC videosignals. Is there a PAL version available?
:-?

The toaster was originally designed by Newtek to make both a NTSC and a PAL version.   Motorola who made the video chip used on the toaster, never made the PAL version of it, which is why the Toaster is an NTSC only device.   Newteks current VT product is both NTSC and PAL, and there are dual mode versions of Tricaster available as well.  The cool thing about the toaster products and the upcoming speededit, is that they will transcode for you from NTSC to PAL for you on the fly.
    -Tig

[Matt_H]

A company called RAMIGA (better known for some A1200 busboards) advertised a product called Prime Image Passport 4000 that allowed the use of a Toaster in a PAL environment. It apparently used some combination of hardware and software to re-encode the video signals to PAL. I have no idea if it ever reached the market or how much it cost.

[Tigger]

It works well actually.  It basically turns PAL to NTSC going into the Toaster and NTSC to PAL going out of the Toaster.
     -Tig

[Matt_H]

@ Tigger

You've seen it in action? That's neat.

Too bad it never caught on. A bigger productivity market in Europe would've been helpful.

[Tigger]

Matt_H wrote:
@ Tigger

You've seen it in action? That's neat.

Too bad it never caught on. A bigger productivity market in Europe would've been helpful.

There is very little having to do with the toaster I havent seen, they demoed it for the Toaster developers symposium right after the Flyer came out.
    -Tig

[uncharted]

Ah, so it was a Moto chip then?  I had read somewhere that it was a Sony chip that was the stumbling point and that the reason why there was no PAL version of it was that the chip's abilities and methods relied heavily on how NTSC worked.

[Framiga]

@Tigger

do you know that a PAL version wouldn't be an chip only matter?

AFAIK the PAL version was skipped due the higher cost of a PAL version.

And about the tranccoding attempt, it didn't worked as aspected (quality versus hi costs of broadcast quality trancoders)

Anyway it was a great loss for all us PAL users.

[Tigger]

Framiga wrote:
@Tigger

do you know that a PAL version wouldn't be an chip only matter?

Not sure why you think that.  Since Tim (Jenison) told me that story (he's the founder of Newtek) I'm guessing its a fairly accurate story.  PAL actually has less processing per second then NTSC, though the effects, etc would have had to be redone to be PAL format, as I guy who has worked on most of the effects generators for the Amiga video toaster, who wrote the conversion programs for the old effects and whose about to debut the new VT effects generator, I'm guessing I am familiar enough with the Toaster to know what it would and wouldnt take.  The reason there wasnt a PAL version is there wasnt a PAL chip from Moto.
    -Tig

[Framiga]

sorry Tigger but i think you should take a look at the differences between NTSC encoding and PAL (without speaking of the 100 more lines for PAL) and not only at the mere 5 FPS differences.

Software/effects wise, was another problem as well

If any Toaster PAL version would have been ever produced, it would be a different board and not only a chip replacement.

[Tigger]

Framiga wrote:
sorry Tigger but i think you should take a look at the differences between NTSC encoding and PAL (without speaking of the 100 more lines for PAL) and not only at the mere 5 FPS differences.

Framiga, I am hugely familiar with the difference in encoding the two.  Newtek's current VT product changes between the two with the click of a button.  I used to deliver tape, and now deliver DVD in PAL all the time.  I'm not sure what you are trying to imply with you lines comment, because

100 lines * 25 frames <  5 frames x 525 lines

which is my point.  

Software/effects wise, was another problem as well

Which I pointed, but dual use software even then was known, the CG programs used to work in both PAL/NTSC, etc.  Lightwave was always PAL/NTSC and

If any Toaster PAL version would have been ever produced, it would be a different board and not only a chip replacement.

First of all the toaster is mostly gate arrays, the joke was everytime a major update was done we got a whole new Toaster, that was pretty much true.  The designer of the system and owner of the company, whose company makes NTSC and PAL products now, his products have won academy and emmy awards for technical merit, and my 20 years as a professional engineer say one thing, and you say another, and we should take your opinion?  Please explain your professional qualifications which would lead me to this belief?
    -Tig

[Framiga]

You have post your POV (and your not necessary CV btw). Not me.

What i do as job, and which is my "professional qualification" are none of your job.

We were speaking about a NOT existing product, claiming NOT existing plans (or aborted plans anyway) and you turned out in a "battle".

Sorry Tigger but i have enough :-).

[Tigger]

Like to point out that in English not much of your last post made sense.
    -Tig

[Framiga]

eh, eh Tigger! have you ended the aguments? ;-)