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Offline X-rayTopic starter

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UK Knife Amnesty
« on: May 26, 2006, 06:54:29 PM »
So, we are being encouraged to hand in knives to reduce knife crime. Now the only knives I have that can be considered dangerous are a kitchen knife (a short serrated knife) and a scalpel. But I don't carry those, they are for home use.
However, if I so wished I could take the kitchen knife down to Camden market and hurt quite a few people at the very least before I was stopped.

This makes me ask whether the UK government is addressing the proper issues by concentrating on the knives rather than people's attitudes, their behaviour. We all have knives in the house. And we can all cause some serious trouble with them if we like, but most of us don't do that, do we?. The same applies to other items such as screwdrivers and other tools.
I'm not against people being prohibited to carry items in public when they have no reasonable cause to do so, but this amnesty is not going to make us any safer. The criminal who wants to carry a knife will do so.
The number of knives available to the everyday man in the street has not been restricted at any point in recent history, yet the number of stabbings has gone up.

What's next, having a spoon amnesty to curb obesity?
 

Offline Cyberus

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Re: UK Knife Amnesty
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2006, 07:00:01 PM »
I concur.

Amnesties in most cases inviolve law abiding citizens surrendering weapons they were never going to use. The argument is though, that if they are out of circulation, this can only be a good thing.

Furthermore, you raise another interesting point. I dunno if you have read the British Crime Survey, but an interesting point is that there are two issues - crime, and the fear of crime.
Politicians will always try and stir up fear for their own ends.

[Or have I missed the mark slightly with this comment???]

I like Amigas
 

Offline Doobrey

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Re: UK Knife Amnesty
« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2006, 12:28:21 PM »
Quote

Cyberus wrote:
[Or have I missed the mark slightly with this comment???]


Nope, I think you're pretty much spot on about the politicians, hype up the problem and then do something completely pointless that they can then bleat about everytime the topic is brought up.
 I'm just suprised they didn't feel the need to fly out to somewhere like Jamaica for a 2 week 'fact finding trip' before setting up the amnesty. :roll:
On schedule, and suing
 

Offline jkirk

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Re: UK Knife Amnesty
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2006, 04:48:06 PM »
yea totally pointless to get rid of knives or guns for that matter.

we have a saying here," guns don't kill people - people kill people."

and "if you outlaw a weapon then only the outlaws will have weapons"

i just don't see the point of outlawing something inanimate. anything can be abused and used improperly. anything can kill,( cars, trees, water, fire, Etc) if we outlawed all of them then where would we be? screwed...  
The only stupid question is a question not asked.  


Win•dows: n. A thirty-two bit extension and graphical shell to a sixteen-bit patch to an eight-bit operating system originally coded for a four-bit microprocessor which was written by a two-bit company that can\'t stand one bit of competition.
 

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Re: UK Knife Amnesty
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2006, 06:09:07 PM »
Quote

jkirk wrote:
yea totally pointless to get rid of knives or guns for that matter.

we have a saying here," guns don't kill people - people kill people."

and "if you outlaw a weapon then only the outlaws will have weapons"

i just don't see the point of outlawing something inanimate. anything can be abused and used improperly. anything can kill,( cars, trees, water, fire, Etc) if we outlawed all of them then where would we be? screwed...  


Ok then, so do you agree with the outlawing of the inanimate Crack Cocaine in your country?
 

Offline jkirk

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Re: UK Knife Amnesty
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2006, 06:25:21 PM »
Quote

nicholas wrote:
Quote

jkirk wrote:
yea totally pointless to get rid of knives or guns for that matter.

we have a saying here," guns don't kill people - people kill people."

and "if you outlaw a weapon then only the outlaws will have weapons"

i just don't see the point of outlawing something inanimate. anything can be abused and used improperly. anything can kill,( cars, trees, water, fire, Etc) if we outlawed all of them then where would we be? screwed...  


Ok then, so do you agree with the outlawing of the inanimate Crack Cocaine in your country?


wow man what ya talkin' bout.
he he

really that is an interesting question. one i have not really settled in my mind but off the top of my head i would say no. this is the reasons.

1 money spent keeping it out will actually be better spent helping the needy. of course that won't happen it would be funneled into the military. :-(

2 though it would cause a temporary surge of addicts in the end there will be no more abuse than drinking or smoking.

3 the war on drugs will never be won
The only stupid question is a question not asked.  


Win•dows: n. A thirty-two bit extension and graphical shell to a sixteen-bit patch to an eight-bit operating system originally coded for a four-bit microprocessor which was written by a two-bit company that can\'t stand one bit of competition.
 

Offline T_Bone

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Re: UK Knife Amnesty
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2006, 10:07:51 PM »
Quote

nicholas wrote:

Ok then, so do you agree with the outlawing of the inanimate Crack Cocaine in your country?


I doubt it makes any difference. Crack is easier to find than weed. I don't know who'd start out looking for crack then smack himself in the head thinking "Oh, I forgot, it's illegal"
this space for rent
 

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Re: UK Knife Amnesty
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2006, 11:23:06 PM »
Quote

jkirk wrote:
Quote

nicholas wrote:
Quote

jkirk wrote:
yea totally pointless to get rid of knives or guns for that matter.

we have a saying here," guns don't kill people - people kill people."

and "if you outlaw a weapon then only the outlaws will have weapons"

i just don't see the point of outlawing something inanimate. anything can be abused and used improperly. anything can kill,( cars, trees, water, fire, Etc) if we outlawed all of them then where would we be? screwed...  


Ok then, so do you agree with the outlawing of the inanimate Crack Cocaine in your country?


wow man what ya talkin' bout.
he he

really that is an interesting question. one i have not really settled in my mind but off the top of my head i would say no. this is the reasons.

1 money spent keeping it out will actually be better spent helping the needy. of course that won't happen it would be funneled into the military. :-(

2 though it would cause a temporary surge of addicts in the end there will be no more abuse than drinking or smoking.

3 the war on drugs will never be won


:-D
 

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Re: UK Knife Amnesty
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2006, 11:23:26 PM »
Quote

T_Bone wrote:
Quote

nicholas wrote:

Ok then, so do you agree with the outlawing of the inanimate Crack Cocaine in your country?


I doubt it makes any difference. Crack is easier to find than weed. I don't know who'd start out looking for crack then smack himself in the head thinking "Oh, I forgot, it's illegal"


:lol:

 

Offline X-rayTopic starter

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Re: UK Knife Amnesty
« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2006, 07:25:48 PM »
Big surprise, wow, I can hardly believe it...guess what...another kid got stabbed to death, right in the middle of the knife amnesty. How could that be?
And the little f*ckheads managed to prove my point: they had an argument with the victim [color=ff0000]and went back to their housing estate to get weapons, and then returned to stab the victim.[/color][/i]
Fat lot of good an amnesty is...
 

Offline Hyperspeed

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Re: UK Knife Amnesty
« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2006, 02:09:03 AM »
The reason we have amnesties in the UK is just for the police to estimate what exactly they're up against.

The last gun amnesty was designed to get the air pistols out of circulation that could be modified to take real bullets - they ended up with a skip full of Uzis, magnums and an anti-tank gun from WW2!

The knife amnesty gathered up hundreds of thousands of knives, of which most were a little more potent than a breadknife. For example - flick-knives, Rambo-style hunting knives, samurai swords, bayonets, and ninja paraphernalia.

I'd rather my chances with a screwdriver or curvy cheese knife than the above!

:laughing:
 

Offline GreggBz

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Re: UK Knife Amnesty
« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2006, 05:37:16 AM »
As much as I dislike rumors, psedu-truth, and Michael Moore in general, his movie Bowling for Columbine made me hate the media.

We really do live in a culture of fear perpetuated by the media. It's kind of one of those unanticipated side effects of our experimental democracy. Fear and death get ratings. Networks make more money when they show fear and death. They are less boring then cooking and highway construction I guess. It's the overall drift from science and logic and into low level human emotion that I fear. Maybe people would stop killing each other if they were not so damn afraid.

We had little or no coverage of the Space Shuttle program until 7 astronauts died in a fireball over Texas. Now there is this big upshot in coverage.  It angers me, that NOW the media pays attention to this wonderful and inspiring human endeavor.. Just maybe something bad will happen huh guys?

Maybe it comes from our "leaders."
It's election time, time for some legislation to protect the children from the evil, scary world. Time to get tough on CRIME! Time for some terror warnings! Time for some REALLY scary ads in black and white that say how evil the other guy is.

And what's with the bloody germ commercials! Anti-Bacterial this and that. I'm waiting for some company to develop a bubble we can isolate our toodlers in to protect them from bird flu and bad meat.

Here's a clue. Inspire me. Speak about the future, science, and human goodness.  

Wow, that was an off topic rant. Sorry.
 

Offline X-rayTopic starter

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Re: UK Knife Amnesty
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2006, 10:45:05 AM »
@ Hyperspeed

"...The reason we have amnesties in the UK is just for the police to estimate what exactly they're up against..."
-----------------------------------------------------------

Nonsense. I put it to you that most, if not all of those weapons were handed in by individuals who had no intention to use them in a crime. I can hand in several weapons but it does nothing to make the UK a safer place and it doesn't indicate 'what is out there' that the police are up against.
Even if you could cast a magic spell and take all of the knives out of the hands of every criminal in the UK, they would only need to pop down to the local hardware store the next day and buy what ever they want, whether it is a box cutter or an axe. Or they can just spend a few £ and get a nice carving knife from any supermarket.
 

Offline Hyperspeed

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Re: UK Knife Amnesty
« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2006, 11:55:46 PM »
Quote
by X-ray:
I put it to you that most, if not all of those weapons were handed in by individuals who had no intention to use them in a crime.


No intention to use them in a crime? With knives, the crime is using them in an argument. Nobody robs a bank with a knife, you can't snipe people down with a knife and normal police on the street are fairly well protected against knife attack.

The crime would only occur if the individual felt threatened enough to pull the knife, it would rarely be used for indiscriminate killing (although the threat to use one in a mugging might be an exception).

Knives are a defensive tool and can be resorted to with ease as opposed to the more difficult diplomatic route in a confrontation.

The general purging of knives out of circulation can be productive.

Master criminals may be able to get hold of knives with ease but taking them out of circulation certainly makes it harder for the teenage gang members.

Although, depending on the roughness of the area a broken bottle, screwdriver etc. can be equally as offensive in close quarters.

Nobody butters their toast with a Rambo knife and it's very design and ergonomics such killing. They're more effective at quick and multiple kills and most importantly they're expensive. By taking these off the street you're destabilising the criminal economy - they have to spend more of their own money to 'tool up' to this specification.
 

Offline X-rayTopic starter

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Re: UK Knife Amnesty
« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2006, 06:53:49 AM »
It doesn't matter whether you think a knife is defensive or offensive. Both ways if the guy feels the need to carry, he won't be handing his knife in.

Also you need to go down the high street more often. Knives that don't have a use in the kitchen are easily bought at hardware stores. And they don't have to be expensive unless they are quality items.

A 'Rambo knife' isn't a popular choice to carry because it is bulky. Most of the stabbings I have seen have been with knives that can be concealed, like a switchblade or a short kitchen knife.