Elbox's Spider II and Amithlon - caveat

[bhoggett]

Anyone intending to purchase the new Spider II from Elbox together with the Amithlon drivers should be aware of the experience reported by one customer on the amithlonopen mailing list.

It seems that the driver requires powerpci.library 2.11 or higher, which is not supplied by Elbox or otherwise available for download. The only "official" source for this library is the author, Harald Frank, who is is under no obligation to hand it out.

You have been warned. If you are planning to purchase this product be prepared for an adventure before you can get it to work.

(It would be nice if hardware manufacturers targetting a certain platform would make sure they supply all the software required to make their product work, but I guess that's asking too much.)

[tjaoz]

Your writing is nonsense.
Spider II is a USB 2.0 card which can work in Amiga with Mediator and in PC with Amithlon. Elbox delivers a card with USB 2.0 drivers to both systems. It is clear that Elbox does not include those programs, which are included in the Amithlon package or in Amithlon updates. SpiderCD does not include updates for Mediator System Files, either. These files are delivered with Mediator, and their updates are sent after registering Mediator.

Your accusations that a hardware manufacturer does not provide updates of software products from other manufacturers is simply absurd.

The Spider II requirements read clearly the required versions of other programs:
'Note: Spider.device ver.3.0 requires:
the Poseidon stack ver.1.31 or higher,
pci.library ver.5.9 or higher (Mediator users only),
powerpci.library ver.2.11 or higher (Amithlon users only).'

By the way, there is a more interesting sentence in this post in the Amithlon list:

'After installing this Lib the Spider2 and the Poseidon Stack working perfectly !'

I also have a Spider card and my experience is that it works perfect. The only thing causing my reservations is the way that guy from Poseidon treats his clients.

[Kronos]

tjaoz wrote:
The only thing causing my reservations is the way that guy from Poseidon treats his clients.

Wow !! What have YOU been smoking ??

Chris has written Poseidon primarly for the use in MorphOS.

When e3b "lost" the old stack-provider for their cards he stepped
in and both sides came to an OEM-agreement.

Then came Elbox and tried top change the rules of an previously
agreed OEM-deal, leaving Chris pretty much in the cold.

But that wasn't enough, Elbox also put ILLEGAL code into their
driver and accused Chriswhen they got caught with it.

As an result Chris made it quite clear that he would not
cooperate with Elbox anymore.

So you have to blame Elbox for any trouble that may arrise from this.

About Spieder/Amithlon:

How does a normal user know that he needs a special non-public
driver for a HW that is on sale to norma users ?

It was Elbox duty to either provide those drivers, or to make
it 100% clear that one has to get some special files beforehand.

[tjaoz]

As regards Elbox I can only say that I have many products by Elbox. In my opinion they are the best and reliable business producing hardware for Amiga. They have superb products and excellent support for their clients.

My opinion of Hodges is different. I bought from him keys to Poseidon. After several months Hodges switched off my keys because in some discussion my opinion was different from his. He cannot be treated seriously with this behaviour, as if he were a child who seems to believe that he may not respect basic rights of his clients.

And you Kronos are a Mediator or Amithlon user? Or maybe you are user of some other hardware, which does not have the possibility of using USB 2.0 controllers? That could explain why you are so "worried" about Spider/Amithlon users...

[Kronos]

While I have heard of several complaints about Elbox refusing
to give updates to "critical" costumers, this is the 1st time
I heard it about Chris.

Yes I also think that Elbox has some good HW, but their way
of doing buisness sucks.

Remeber the probs they had with CGX,P96 and W3D ?

Do you really think that in all these cases (plus now
Poseidon) it was just coincident that those could get an
agreement with other HW-suppliers, but not with Elbox ?

What REAL use is the USB2-controller on the Spider ?

How much is th REAL transferrate. Not some theorhy of what
it could be if it would be used with the Shark ?

So no, I don't own a Mediator or Spider, as I prefer to buy
my HW from people who pay and respect those who have written
the drivers for that HW.

[walter]

Congratulations, Bill---
---You've managed to move Lord Voldemort.  :-)

I'm sure everybody has already seen this, but:  as of
:-Dyesterday:-D,  "powerpci.library" V 2.11 is available on
VMC's website at:

http://www.vmc.de/amithlon/ger_ami_soft.html

Guido Mersmann's "lowlevel.library" replacement, with
substantial PC gameport support (haven't tried it myself,
not an expert, here) can be obtained there as well.  I suspect
Guido deserves most of the credit on these moves.

Walter

[bhoggett]

Your writing is nonsense.

Name one thing I wrote which wasn't a fact at the time of writing.

It is clear that Elbox does not include those programs, which are included in the Amithlon package or in Amithlon updates.

But they are NOT INCLUDED with the Amithlon package or the updates, and until yesterday they weren't available for download from anywhere on the net. Do your research before you spout off any more rubbish.

The only thing causing my reservations is the way that guy from Poseidon treats his clients.

So you say he "switched off" your keys? How exactly did he do that?

The only way for him to have done anything like you suggest is to block your keys from working with Poseidon updates. If he did that, he should have the right to reply to your accusations/

(There are valid reasons for blocking keys - such as their supply with prated versions of the software)

Is the Spider really required to get USB for Amithlon anyway? I thought Amithlon tapped into the linux drivers to run hardware, as it allows use of Nvidia gfx cards for example and other things which have no native AmigaOS or native Amithlon drivers. Why not just use a Linux-native supported cheapo USB/USB2 card with the Linux drivers, or doesn't that work yet? I was under the impression that Amithlon made special Amiga drivers for a particular USB/gfx/sound/etc. card irelevant...

[bhoggett]

@amigabill

The Spider is at the time of writing the only USB solution for Amithlon users. There are rumours of other drivers being developed to use the USB port unually built into the motherboards, but that's not available yet.

I was under the impression that Amithlon made special Amiga drivers for a particular USB/gfx/sound/etc. card irelevant...

Not quite. The graphics drivers are wrapped around the Linux framebuffer drivers, but that's about it for Amithlon. Umilator also had sound and networking wrapped around Linux drivers. The idea of writing a USB wrapper around the Linux drivers was considered (which caused Lord Voldemort to harass Chris Hodges for considering it) but it was never implemented.

[platon42]

> While I have heard of several complaints about Elbox refusing
> to give updates to "critical" costumers, this is the 1st time
> I heard it about Chris

I've explained my reasons for not letting this person get any more free updates to my product on the mailing list (feel free to look them up). Even though "Rat/tjaoz" claims otherwise, this has got nothing to do about different opinions or criticism.

As about transfer speed, people have been telling me that they are around 2-3% of the theoretically archievable speed for USB2.0. But for sure, Elbox will release some benchmarks soon, won't they? Or why haven't they yet? Ever wondered why they only quote the standard USB2.0 press material instead of telling how good "their" product performs?

[kolla]

amigabill wrote:
Is the Spider really required to get USB for Amithlon anyway? I thought Amithlon tapped into the linux drivers to run hardware, as it allows use of Nvidia gfx cards for example and other things which have no native AmigaOS or native Amithlon drivers. Why not just use a Linux-native supported cheapo USB/USB2 card with the Linux drivers, or doesn't that work yet? I was under the impression that Amithlon made special Amiga drivers for a particular USB/gfx/sound/etc. card irelevant...

No, that would be Umilator.

Amithlon as it is, relies on the slow stream of mostly useless drivers coming from the hands of Harald Frank and friends. Useless to me at least, as my only main feature of Amithlon is that it runs on laptops, and I do not see Harald Frank providing drivers for neither ethernet, pcmcia, sound or anything that you typically find on a laptop. With Umilator however, this could be different.

Ofcourse, as the Spider is just a NEC card with a sticker on, I dont see why those driver shouldnt work also the original NEC cards.  Unless there's something naughty going on with the drivers again, so that only cards with certain chip serial IDs will work, and other cards, if detected, might cause something unexpected .   :-D

[tjaoz]

@Kronos

While I have heard of several complaints about Elbox refusing
to give updates to "critical" costumers,

And I have heard that you Kronos are abusing young girls.

Stop kidding Kronos, you well know that your accusations against Elbox are far from truth. Elbox is a professional business company. They do not make their support for clients dependent on favouring him in public lists.

this is the 1st time
I heard it about Chris.

But this is real fact! Chris Hodges switch off my keys, for which I paid him.

Yes I also think that Elbox has some good HW, but their way
of doing buisness sucks.

Remeber the probs they had with CGX,P96 and W3D ?

I remember problem of Elbox with these teams/persons. Do you?

1. CGX
I remember that the CGX author had an agreement with Elbox on writing drivers for Mediator. He got from Elbox everything he had asked: hardware (computers, Mediators, PCI cards) and developer docs. When drivers were almost ready, DCE offered him a bribe to NOT support Elbox. And he accepted that bribe.

2. P96
Elbox never signed any agreements with P96, and drivers for graphic cards for Mediator were written by Elbox programmers.

3. W3D
Warp3D for Mediator is here. It was prepared by Hyperion. What is the problem then?
That Elbox were negotiating agreement with Hyperion for a long time while other HW-suppliers signed it within 5 minutes?
No serious company signs such agreements in 5 minutes.
AFAIK Elbox paid Hyperion for Warp3D support all the money declared in their agreement.
What about other HW-suppliers (Matay and DCE)? Did they pay the same as Elbox? I heard they did not.
Anyway, Matay or DCE do not support their products any more.

So no, I don't own a Mediator or Spider

Yes, I thought so.
This is very strange that those who do not have hardware from Elbox are so "worried" about users of this hardware.

Thank you Kronos for your worrying.
I have a lot of Elbox hardware and everything is perfect with it. I do not need your worrying, leave it for your own sleepless nights for yourself, please.

[tjaoz]

@Bill Hoggett

This your statement is nonsense: 'It would be nice if hardware manufacturers targetting a certain platform would make sure they supply all the software required to make their product work...'
Does anyone expect from a PC graphic card producer that he will receive 'all the software required to make their product work' apart from the card drivers? For example the complete Windows XP system with all the updates?

All the files, which are parts of the Amithlon package (including powerpci.library) should be delivered by the Amithlon supplier. Is it not obvious for you?

So you say he "switched off" your keys? How exactly did he do that?

Hodges has made the Poseidon update 2.0 (which mostly has bug fixes for previous versions) NOT work with my keys.
Hodges behaves like a 5 year old child. He does not understand his obligations as a seller towards his client.

(There are valid reasons for blocking keys - such as their supply with prated
versions of the software)

I am not using a pirated version, I bought my keys directly from Chris Hodges.

[zacman]

>But this is real fact! Chris Hodges switch off my
>keys, for which I paid him.

So it doesn't work with the old version anymore (the
one for which you bought the keyfile for?).
Remember there is no right for getting updates for
free.

[bhoggett]

@tjaoz

All the files, which are parts of the Amithlon package (including powerpci.library) should be delivered by the Amithlon supplier. Is it not obvious for you?

Are you utterly DENSE, as well as misinformed?

The powerpci.library 2.11 is NOT part of the Amithlon package, not is it part of the updates. When Elbox released the Amithlon divers for the Spider, this library was not available for anywhere on the net.

You're full of lies and BS. I remember you now, Mr Rat. You're the one posting fabricated accusations against anyone whoever criticises Elbox in any way, and you support the inclusion of hostile virii in Elbox' commercial software.