DCE Blizzard accelerators and clock batteries

[PG]

To be honest it confuses me to.
Are you sure about this, how have you measured the loading current?
Normally, you CAN (if you know what you are doing) replace a rechargable battery (for example a VL2020) with a NON-rechargable but then you have to find and replace the charging resistor with a diode.
So you only have current flowing in one direction and no loading current.

[Hyperspeed]

Would you solder on the CR2032 though? Where would that leave the consumer when its' charge died?

[PG]

What is the difference between a soldered CR2032 and a soldered rechargeable battery?
Havent you seen the leaking (rechargable) batterys on Amiga 4000 and Apollo 1240, they are soldered arent they?
Even a rechargable battery (VL2020 included) wont last forever.
I dont think the consumer is in a much worse position with a CR2032 than with a VL2020.

[keropi]

I've got a DCE scandoubler, g-rex 1200 and BPPC, all working fine ... stop accusing them, the quality of their products is fine, maybe the personell is wrong... those things are irrelevant to each other...

EDIT: Just ckecked my DCE BPPC, it has a Panasonick VL2020 battery...

[Hyperspeed]

The only place where non-rechargeable batteries are soldered permanently is novelty monkeys from a kids' shop!

Even early 90's 386s had rechargeable batteries and yes, the A4000 ones leak - because they're 14 years old and the size of house!

:-D

Apollo cards were never up to the standard of Phase 5 cards, they made a 75Mhz '060 board with no FPU.It got 10% less score than the 50Mhz Phase 5 '1260 in Amiga Format.

Maybe in the future our time will be kept by the internet or radio waves. Pity help us if a virus targets that though!

;-)

[PG]

Hyperspeed wrote:
The only place where non-rechargeable batteries are soldered permanently is novelty monkeys from a kids' shop!

Well, your obviously not an expert in electronics.
Here is another novelty monkey for you.. ;-)

http://amiga.resource.cx/photos/photo.pl?id=t1230

Even early 90's 386s had rechargeable batteries and yes, the A4000 ones leak - because they're 14 years old and the size of house!

:-D

If you didnt knew it, most modern PC:s use CR2032 as backup battery.

Apollo cards were never up to the standard of Phase 5 cards, they made a 75Mhz '060 board with no FPU.It got 10% less score than the 50Mhz Phase 5 '1260 in Amiga Format.

Phase5 AND DCE Blizzard 1260 cards has the same problem.
Ever tried to clock a Blizzard 1260 in 75Mhz?

[Hyperspeed]

by PG:
Well, your obviously not an expert in electronics.
Here is another novelty monkey for you..

http://amiga.resource.cx/photos/photo.pl?id=t1230

Oh Jesus, Mtech/Apollo accelerators... I think I'll take the novelty monkey. Those boards were so cheaply designed they probably knew the battery would outlast the board!

:-)

by PG:
If you didnt knew it, most modern PC:s use CR2032 as backup battery.

Yes, with a replaceable clip to pull them out when they die. You can replace them without having the need for an electronics degree.

by PG:
Phase5 AND DCE Blizzard 1260 cards has the same problem.
Ever tried to clock a Blizzard 1260 in 75Mhz?

No, because Phase5 used the XC68060RC50A which has a full FPU and MMU. It is however widely in use at 66Mhz and far more reliable.

I always remember the Amiga Format reviews of the Blizzard cards and they were basically like Ferrari to the Apollo/Magnum boards (the Ladas).

Now, I'm going to spank my novelty monkey.

:-D

[leirbag28]

My SX32 Pro's battery Exploded! it was loud too..thank goodness it didnt damage my CD32

(the SX32 was made by DCE correct?)

[PG]

So, you DO have a modern PC..?
Have you replaced your CR2032 with a rechargable battery yet?.. ;-)

(After all, that was what this thread was all about, to begin with)

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

by PG:
Phase5 AND DCE Blizzard 1260 cards has the same problem.
Ever tried to clock a Blizzard 1260 in 75Mhz?


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


No, because Phase5 used the XC68060RC50A which has a full FPU and MMU.

So did ACT with their A1260 50 Mhz version.

It is however widely in use at 66Mhz and far more reliable.

So you say, and you know what you are talking about from your own experience?

I always remember the Amiga Format reviews of the Blizzard cards and they were basically like Ferrari to the Apollo/Magnum boards (the Ladas).

You shouldnt believe everything you read, you know.
Sure there are people that will agree with you, but also others that are very happy with their Apollo:s.
I agree with you to the point that i also think the Blizzard is a better card in many ways, for example its memory design.
The Apollo is however slightly faster.

[x56h34]

I didn't use any equipment to measure if the VL2020 is receiving charge when installed on the B1260, however this particular battery has been sitting new and unused in my storage for a few years and during that time it would be pretty much safe to assume that the battery has been discharged due to lack of usage, so as soon as I've installed it and let it recharge for a few hours, powered off and powered back on my A1200, the time was correct, so it would be safe to assume that it is recharging.

In any case, I've spoken to a friend of mine who used to be an Amiga repairman back in the day, and he says that Blizzards most probably have an RTC clock chip on-board which is autosensing the battery type. This could be proven by reading the chip's model # and looking up the specs through Google, but unfortunatelly the chip itself is covered by the battery, and I don't want to desolder it just to be able to read the chip's model number. :-)

Anyway, I guess I'll see how the card behaves in regards to keeping the time correctly for the next few months and in case it completely loses time at some point, I'll assume that the VL2020 is recharging.

[PG]

x56h34 wrote:
I didn't use any equipment to measure if the VL2020 is receiving charge when installed on the B1260, however this particular battery has been sitting new and unused in my storage for a few years and during that time it would be pretty much safe to assume that the battery has been discharged due to lack of usage, so as soon as I've installed it and let it recharge for a few hours, powered off and powered back on my A1200, the time was correct, so it would be safe to assume that it is recharging.

Ok, thanks for explaining that, i think the puzzle is solved..:-)
You know, even if your battery has been in storage in many years, it should still be 2-3v.
That is why your time is correct and it doesnt prove that the battery is recharging, i think its not.

In any case, I've spoken to a friend of mine who used to be an Amiga repairman back in the day, and he says that Blizzards most probably have an RTC clock chip on-board which is autosensing the battery type.

No offence, I dont want to miscredit your friend but i say thats impossible.

This could be proven by reading the chip's model # and looking up the specs through Google, but unfortunatelly the chip itself is covered by the battery, and I don't want to desolder it just to be able to read the chip's model number. :-)

As i said before i dont have a DCE 1260 near me but i checked the Phase5 version and the chip is a M6242B from OKI.
I checked the data sheet (just to be sure..:-) and it doesnt have any such feature.
Im pretty sure the DCE version has the same chip.

Anyway, I guess I'll see how the card behaves in regards to keeping the time correctly for the next few months and in case it completely loses time at some point, I'll assume that the VL2020 is recharging.

:-)

I think it could take some time before your VL2020 drops below 2V (M6242B wants at least 2V battery backup)
but when it does i suggest you replace the battery with a CR2032.

[x56h34]

Hehe, it's a tough call to make without proper equipment to prove facts. :-)

By looking at the pictures of Phase 5 B1260 rev II and DCE B1260 cards, they look identical, other than the battery.

I guess I could always install a socketed CR2032, should my VL2020 turn out to not recharge. :-D

I'm just wondering in case you are right about the clock chip not being auto-sensing of the type of battery, then which component is responsible for not letting the battery receive charge (in case of DCE B1260)? You can take a look at the picture of DCE B1260 found on the Big Book of Amiga Hardware site, and check here for a picture of Phase 5 rev II card.

[PG]

x56h34 wrote:
Hehe, it's a tough call to make without proper equipment to prove facts. :-)

I have the opposite, proper equipment but not a DCE card..;-)

By looking at the pictures of Phase 5 B1260 rev II and DCE B1260 cards, they look identical, other than the battery.

I guess I could always install a socketed CR2032, should my VL2020 turn out to not recharge. :-D

It is a really good idea if you want to be able to change battery, without having to desolder it.
But, i think there might be a height problem, if you want to use your card in a desktop A1200.
I would take the easy way out and just solder in a new CR2032, it will last for years.

I'm just wondering in case you are right about the clock chip not being auto-sensing of the type of battery, then which component is responsible for not letting the battery receive charge (in case of DCE B1260)? You can take a look at the picture of DCE B1260 found on the Big Book of Amiga Hardware site, and check here for a picture of Phase 5 rev II card.

Yes, if you look closely at the picture you will find that the DCE card has a diode instead of the 330 ohm resistor that the Phase5 version has.
Look below the battery, to the left.
There might be other changes to, so please dont just change the diode to a resistor on your card.
If you do so, you take the risk of damaging your card.

[x56h34]

PG wrote:

Yes, if you look closely at the picture you will find that the DCE card has a diode instead of the 330 ohm resistor that the Phase5 version has.
Look below the battery, to the left.
There might be other changes to, so please dont just change the diode to a resistor on your card.
If you do so, you take the risk of damaging your card.

Yes I see it. There's also some components that are missing on the DCE card just above the simm socket (blank solder pads) and I've just noticed that my own DCE card is also missing a capacitor (at least I think it's a capacitor :-)) just underneath the battery at the very edge of the card. Weird. :-?

I hope those are all effects of design changes (depending of production batches at DCE) and not actual missing parts. :-)