I'm tired of PC's, update an A1200 or wait OS4 hardware?

[balrogsoft]

Hi, i'm tired of PC's, i need for work, i work programming mobile and web-based videogames, and i can't make it on Amiga, but for home use, i want a machine to see movies, listen music, burn cd's/dvd's and browse the web, and maybe programming some games or utilities for Amiga. So the options are, update a A1200 (that was not updated since years, i still have a Blizzard 1230/50Mhz), or wait for a OS4 hardware, that maybe will never available. Another thing is that i want compatibility with old 1200 games and programs, then maybe the best option is a A1200 on a tower with PPC/060 acelerator, mediator, Voodoo 3 3000, and Sound Blaster.

I made some numbers on www.amigasuperbit.com, i can get a complete upgrade for 799 EUR:

Xtreme Box A1200 Tower + Keyboard adapt + PSU AT + Mediator + 1200 MMCD = 315 EUR
Blizzard PPC 603e 210Mhz/060 50Mhz without SCSI = 387 EUR
Voodoo 3 3000 PCI 16MB = 75 EUR
Sound Blaster 4.1 = 21.55 EUR

Total 799.02 EUR

Maybe i can get a cheap Voodoo and Sound Blaster on ebay, but it only decrease 50 or 60 EUR to the price.

If i choose the A1200 upgrade option, i can run 1200 games without problems? i can switch between AGA or Voodoo output without disconnecting Voodoo? The voodoo specifications says "MPEG-1,2 playback", so i can see VCD and SVCD without sound or video cuts with this machine? And how about Avi files (divx, xvid, mp4, ...)? You recommend me get a Blizzard PPC 603e with SCSI (it's about 80 EUR more expensive, maybe i can save some money buying PCI cards on ebay, and get a SCSI version)?

The other option is wait for OS4 Hardware, but i will not get 1200 compatibility, or not? and only motherboard probably will cost like the A1200 upgrade... so the question is, what i can made? upgrade an A1200 or wait OS4 hardware?

Thanks you guys...

[Oliver]

Waiting for OS4 hardware hasn't been a good option so far.  Maybe that will change.  I personally think you will get sick of browsing with a 1200 very quickly.  Compatibility with 1200 games can be done well with a PC + WinUAE, but I guess you probably know that.  AFAIK, the A1 must also run UAE, but the emulation will not perform as well as a modern PC with Windows and WinUAE.  If you're just sick of Windows, maybe you could try an alternative x86 OS.

[motorollin]

AmigaOne will run some 68k software through 68k emulation, but any custom chip-dependent software will require UAE.

My opinion would be go for the A1200 if backwards compatibility is important to you. If OS4 is released it should run on an A1200 with a PPC board anyway, so you can have OS4 and A1200 compatibility :-)

--
moto

[SamuraiCrow]

I have a MicroA1-c running AmigaOS 4.0 prerelease 2 but will probably sell it in favor of a PowerVixxen LT accelerator board when it comes out.  Both will run AmigaOS 4.0 but the PowerVixxen LT will be a plug-in board for the A1200 and will therefore have better backward compatability than the AmigaOne.

The Blizzard accelerator will also run AmigaOS 4.0 when it's released but it won't come bundled with it.  It might end up being cheaper to buy the PowerVixxen LT than the Blizzard + AmigaOS 4.0 and what's especially cool is the fact that the PowerVixxen LT will have on-board sound and graphics card included.  The Blizzard can get a Blizzard-Vision card for graphics but it won't be nearly as good as the PowerVixxen LT.

[pVC]

If the movies are important, then I wouldn't recommend a1200. There isn't software support for hardware decoders on Voodoo or anything else and 603e isn't quite up for the job with cpu, at least with heavier avi's etc.

For those other tasks expanded a1200 will work fine (as amiga system, lets not compare browsers to pc browsers now). Although cd-burning is bit slower etc. But expanding the a1200 is always bit hacky and new generation computers are much cleaner solutions and more stable in long run. I'd really recommend SCSI, if you go a1200 way. OS is running on 68k cpu and SCSI makes it more fluent to use.

As for compatibility, system friendly software will most likely to work, but real a1200 is best for most games and demos etc, which uses a1200 hardware directly. Older games must be emulated with uae or similar on new systems.

If you make that upgrade to your a1200, you probably end up with two monitor system... one for voodoo and one for aga modes. Unless you make some kind of scandoubler hack or something to get different modes to same monitor In any case, programs can open aga or rtg screens and you see them if you have correct outputs connected One way is to buy tv-card for Mediator and connect video out from amiga to it and then watch aga modes from Voodoo with tv-software. It works with non-multitasking programs too. TV-card keeps feeding picture directly to Voodoo mem without using cpu. I've made little script to start aga programs... it starts tv-software, makes it fullscreen and then executes the actual aga software. Picture quality is worse with tv-card than other ways though.

If movies are more important than running 060 needing demos/games for you, then I'd say wait for A1 or get Pegasos2 (you can get complete systems from 700e). Overall speed of applications and movie watching is far more better with next generation hw. You can still keep the old a1200/030 for games etc

[Piru]

The most sensible solution would be WinUAE, at least with your current requirements.

If you absolutely won't have a PC, then I'd say Pegasos II with G4@1000 and keeping A1200 for old games. Would be cheaper than expanding your A1200 aswell (whole system excluding monitor), and you get much more bang per buck. Naturally this is no solution if MorphOS is not an option for you.

There are some solutions coming "Real Soon Now", but the percentage of the products actually hitting the market has been quite low.

[Lando]

balrogsoft wrote:
Hi, i'm tired of PC's, i need for work, i work programming mobile and web-based videogames, and i can't make it on Amiga, but for home use, i want a machine to see movies, listen music, burn cd's/dvd's and browse the web, and maybe programming some games or utilities for Amiga.

An A1200, even with a PPC card and Voodoo can't do any of those things well (except for the programming bit).

It can play movies (just about) but a ~200Mhz 603e doesn't have the processing power.  Even low-res DivX in a small window skips so many frames it's like a slideshow, and the sound is choppy.  Unwatchable, basically.

The Voodoo3 doesn't have MPEG1/2 decoding hardware just some  'hardware assist' which offloads a small percentage if you have the correct Windows drivers and only on PC.

If you want a machine to do those tasks you listed, and you're sick of PC's, get a Mac Mini or a Pegasos (depending on how important Amiga compatibility is to you).

If you just want to spend some money and end up with a machine which cost you an arm and a leg, crashes a lot, while not being capable of doing anything useful, upgrade the A1200.

[_ThEcRoW]

Keep an eye on Aros, also you can use Winuae for all your classic needs. Also the peggy is interesting alternative.

[Heinz]

Take a look on Aros.
It's not binary compatible yet but if you already want to do some programming, then you can recompile a lot of stuff for Aros.
Especially MUI programs are pretty easy to do, as Aros has its own MUI replacement (ZUNE).
There is not much software for Aros at this moment, but things are growing steady.

If you want to setup a Aros machine, ask at aros-exec which Hardware is best compatible:

http://aros-exec.org/

Also take a look at the Aros Archives for Software:

http://archives.aros-exec.org/

If you really need binary compatibility, you can use E-UAE on Aros.

[balrogsoft]

First, thanks for your help, i saw good and bad arguments for the upgrade option, i know that Amiga don't have a good browser, but i have my P4 2.6Ghz notebook (that i need for work, it don't work very nice last weeks, but it works) for webs that i can't visit with my Amiga.

About video player functions, if i can view SVCD or at least VCD is enough for me, i remember a VCD spanish movie published on a PC magazine and works on a 486, i think that a PPC 603e with a voodoo is enough for VCD or SVCD, or i'm wrong?. I read that mpeg2 pci decoders that have a EM8400 processor are also compatible with mediator, someone have a MPEG pci card on mediator?

I know that a A1200 with PPC will never be a today computer, but i really like Amiga, i had one since 1989, i left Amiga world on 2001 and i returned on 2005 again. I used PC's only four years, i used Amiga more years, and i want bring to my Amiga 1200 more years of use, and a A1200 with a blizzard 1230/50Mhz with 50 Mb of memory don't give me all functions that i use at home.

I used WinUAE a lot, but a PPC isn't emulated, and windows is at background, i never saw a smoth 2d scroll under windows, it have small jumps, and Amiga have scroll by hardware, i know that scroll isn't the most important thing, but is an example of things that i will never get with UAE. I think that emulators is not the solution of my needs.

I read about PowerVixxen accelerators, but it will be compatible with mediator? because an Amiga without pci slots isn't very usefull. And how is the stage of production? it was showed a prototype on any Amiga show event? it will have 68k compatibility like a blizzard with PPC/060?

About A1 systems, on the Spanish shop that i will buy the hardware, the AmigaOne XE G3 800Mhz motherboard with linux and OS4 price is 798 EUR, the same price that the A1200 upgrade, but i need the tower, and PCI cards for graphics and sound, RAM... I made some calcs and i can get an A1 system for 926 EUR, 200 EUR of difference if i got the pci cards for mediator on ebay... and exist more software for A1200 with PPC, i don't know very well, i didn't know the software available for OS4.

I tried other x86 OS's but i never found the ideal OS's, maybe is something psychological. And AROS is not an alternative now, maybe in the future AROS will be great, but at the moment isn't an option.

One question more, last workbench version that can run an A1200 with PPC is WB 3.9, the OS run on PPC or on the 68k processor? Exist WB replacements to run on PPC (MorphOS, WarpOS?

Thanks again, and sorry for all the questions, but i will spent a lot of money and i want be sure what i bought...

[_ThEcRoW]

"I used WinUAE a lot, but a PPC isn't emulated, and windows is at background, i never saw a smoth 2d scroll under windows, it have small jumps, and Amiga have scroll by hardware, i know that scroll isn't the most important thing, but is an example of things that i will never get with UAE."

I have smooth 2d scrolling here with winuae. Are you using correct settings on your config?.

[balrogsoft]

The problem is not the config of WinUAE, is Windows and its processes or tasks, if i open task manager i see 47 processes and only with 100mb of ram free of 512 mb that i have, only internet explorer opened, you are playing a 2d game (not only UAE, other 2d games running with DirectX), and sometimes it have little stops on the scroll, and with all programs closed, like antivirus and other programs. But as i said this is not the most important thing. I tired of PC's for other reasons...

[Piru]

i think that a PPC 603e with a voodoo is enough for VCD or SVCD, or i'm wrong?

It's barely usable, and you get frame skipping (at least I did with my 603p@270 overclocked BPPC).

I read that mpeg2 pci decoders that have a EM8400 processor are also compatible with mediator, someone have a MPEG pci card on mediator?

No, Mediator has no mpeg2 decoder support. It has no mpeg decoder support of any kind, in fact.

About A1 systems, on the Spanish shop that i will buy the hardware, the AmigaOne XE G3 800Mhz motherboard with linux and OS4 price is 798 EUR, the same price that the A1200 upgrade, but i need the tower, and PCI cards for graphics and sound, RAM.

You can get full Pegasos II system (tower, peg2 mobo, 7447@1GHz cpucard, 256MB ram, 80GB HDD, Radeon 9250 128MB, CD-ROM, keyboard, mouse, speakers, mousepad, morphos/linux preinstalled) for 675 eur. That's in sweden at least (closest shop around here).

One question more, last workbench version that can run an A1200 with PPC is WB 3.9, the OS run on PPC or on the 68k processor?

68k. Nothing in AmigaOS 3.9 is PPC by default. You can install some 3rd party PPC datatypes and other PPC components, though.

Exist WB replacements to run on PPC (MorphOS, WarpOS?

WarpOS: no, nothing that would use the PPC.
MorphOS: Ambient, the PPC native desktop

[Crumb]

Since no decent browser exists for AmigaOS or any of his clones you are out of luck. If you can live with the current browsers and you wan to run ppc software a pegasosII is very nice. KHTML should be ported to MorphOS in the next months.

To run old amiga games you alredy have your old A1200. You don't need anything more than that to run old games.

I would continue using your A1200 for games and the PegasosII to run ppc/modern stuff.

OS4 is nice, but it's uncertain when new hardware will appear so it depends on how patient you are. If you need something NOW, a pegasosII is a cool home computer.

Don't waste your money expanding your 1200. Even with a PowerVixeen you wouldn't be able to play 90% of aga games/demos...

If you can find a 2nd hand full machine very cheap go for it, but at the moment your 1200+pegasos is very nice.

AROS doesn't have software to burn cds, to browse the web (sorry, Mosaic is an old joke), to watch movies, or to listen music comfortably.

BTW NEVER buy a BlizzardPPC without SCSI!

[Oliver]

Hi, I don't think it has been mentioned yet, but you should check if your shop actually has the A1 in stock.  Some shops will list a price for hardware that they don't really have, and the A1 is a rare breed.  A number of people have tried to buy A1s without being able to find a source.