My Pegasos is shipping! Interest in a full review?

HMetal

can you tell us the status of  for AOS4?... if so can you 'hint'?...

and once again concerning AOS4... I think (this is my opinon) that we as a whole need to listen solely to what the 'makers' of the product have to say...as Hyperion hasnt as of yet told anything but the truth...and hasnt broken any promises... so far they've not shown themselves to be amatures or idiots....and I think if we all just step back and take the word from the horses mouth and stop listening to third parties this might make the whole MOS/AOS4 thing a bit less hostile...

I know it's easy for people like me  to slag AOS4/A1/etc when you look at them as bieng 'Amiga.inc' products(this is also all my opinon)... but  if you take away the Amiga.inc factor AOS4 dosent seem to be in such a bad situation... I mean sure it might take a little longer to come out...but I think Hyperion seems reasonable and it's not that far of a stretch to see AOS4 running on Pegasos (legally) someday or at least running on A1's with very similer price/specs...... who knows... AOS4 might come out and be a halfway decent product...


P.S I'm not slamming MorphOS nor AmigaOS nor Hyperion nor any people individually... I'm not even slamming A.inc just saying that I think AOS4/AmigaOne need to be approached without thinking of them purely as Amiga.inc products... I'm just stating a pure opinon on the subject...and how I think we need to approach it... stop thinking Amiga.inc when you think AmigaOne... think Eyetech and Hyperion...  and somehow (for me) the fuzz clears away a bit...

[gary_c]

Just got a call from my wife that a package from Paris was just delivered. :-)

-- gary_c

[bbrv]

Great!...keep us (all) posted...;-)

R&B :-)

[Damion]

@Hmetal

I think what mips_proc said makes a lot of
sense. In my opinion, A-Inc has a pretty
shoddy reputation (especially when it comes
to release dates/etc.;-)), but fortunately OS4
is in the hands of a solid company
who will probably deliver a decent
enough product. Thinking about it from that
angle definately removes the bad/negative
assosiation from something that does not
really deserve it (Hyperion certainly doesn't).

[Paul_Gadd]

Exactly.

AOS4 and Hyperion must not be put in the same sentence as Amiga Inc.

Amiga Inc have brought on all this negative views/opinions by themselves and as far as i am concerned they are a dead company who own the trademark/ip etc.

[Hooligan_DCS]

@IonDeluxe

All that aside, the Amiga community as a whole is too small for this kind of fierce competition, and it would be really nice to see it find a common ground and unite to add to its customer base from other platforms, rather than feeding on itself.
-------------------

You are right, the Amiga-market is too small for lots of competition. On the other hand, when has consumer suffered from such competition? Usually it just makes things better. Cheaper products, better service etc.
But as we stand, there is no competition as only the other party has delivereved the goods. In a few months(my estimate, don't kill this will change as both companies have their solutions out by then, and can do some real competition.
The same goes for us users, we can start comparing the two computers and operation  systems based on daily usage and overall feeling. Not by numbers ran on Linux.

Final answer:

I have come to a conclusion since Saturday morning.  I also came to a realization.  

That realization is that there is a certain faction here practicing "Gorilla marketing" on this, and other Amiga web sites which aren't following what they consider to be "the company line".  Every time anyone, on any site dares to utter an opinion which is contrary to "Amiga Inc is the one true savior", there are dozens of you (more than likely "three people with dozens of accounts") which come out of nowhere to attack, disect, and myopically intimidate the poster for his opinion.  You've even turned on your own community with the same fury and vigor that you used to reserve for PC and Mac sites.  This is considerably shameful.  I will no longer allow that to happen here, or to me.  

Just like anyone else, I have an opinion.  I *will* use this site to state my opinions.  You can CHOOSE to misconstrue them as "facts" or "fud" or whatever you *choose* to do, but they are opinions unless stated otherwise, and those of you who play this game of intimidation KNOW that.  If you cannot handle the truth in the message, then that's not my problem.

Here are some facts.

1) AmigaOne is out

2) AmigaOne has zero to do with Amiga Inc.  It is an Eyetech product.

3) Pegasos is out

4) Pegasos has everything to do with Genesi.

5) MorphOS is out for the Pegasos

6) MorphOS has everything to do with the Pegasos

7) AmigaOS is NOT out, nor is it available for the AmigaOne.  (Otherwise Alan would have said that they could get me an evaluation board "in a few weeks" or somesuch rather than "won't get you one until AmigaOS is out for the AmigaOne".)

AmigaOS has zero to do with Amiga Inc.  It is a Hyperion product.

None of these facts are debatable, so save your breath.  

What I said earlier was that "AmigaOS for the AmigaOne will not be available for several months" (paraphrased, since I appear to have deleted it).  I fully stand by my statement.

I did not give an exact date, but I HAVE heard that from several people involved.  This is my OPINION, but it is based on several FACTS which are unavoidable;

1) Moving an OS between hardware platforms (CSPPC/AmigaOne which is completely different hardware) is a monumental task.

2) Hyperion does not have hundreds of Frieden-level developers.

3) As such, they will NOT be able to complete AmigaOS for the AmigaOne in the next several months.

Note: I did not give an exact date.  I do not know an exact date.  How many is "several"?  In my book, more than two, and less than 12.  I would LOVE in this instance to be proven wrong, but it is not going to happen.

All in all, I don't really care that you don't like my opinion.  AmigaOS will not be available for the AmigaOne in anything more than a beta form, if at all, for several months.  Feel free to prove me wrong, but I stand by my opinion.

I look FORWARD to reviewing the AmigaOne/AmigaOS combo, just as I do the MorphOS/Pegasos combo.  Since AmigaOS and the AmigaOne have zero to do with Amiga Inc except for the licensing of the name, I strongly believe that when available, I can review both evenly and give both the good and bad on each platform.

If you don't believe that, that's fine by me, doesn't matter, but just because you don't like the FACTS here does not give you the right as a mob to beat up on the messenger.  

If you want to know what the "farce" is here, it's the fact that the mobs on either side don't realize the harm they are doing to the Amiga community and platform as a whole.  Each "side" believes that they are right and that their actions are in the best interest of everyone involved.  Unfortunately all you're doing is pissing people off and scaring away the rest.  That is regardless of whether you stand under the red, or the blue flag.

Also amongst facts, this community is now pitifully small, and the minority of very vocal pundits are now exceptionally bitter individuals.  They feel that their way is the only way and anyone who says differently is "the enemy".  It doesn't matter what side you're on.  Anything -- even support -- in excess is a bad thing.

[Alkemyst]

by Wayne on 2003/4/21 14:38:36

Final answer:

I have come to a conclusion since Saturday morning. I also came to a realization.

That realization is that there is a certain faction here practicing "Gorilla marketing" on this, and other Amiga web sites which aren't following what they consider to be "the company line". Every time anyone, on any site dares to utter an opinion which is contrary to "Amiga Inc is the one true savior", there are dozens of you (more than likely "three people with dozens of accounts") which come out of nowhere to attack, disect, and myopically intimidate the poster for his opinion. You've even turned on your own community with the same fury and vigor that you used to reserve for PC and Mac sites. This is considerably shameful. I will no longer allow that to happen here, or to me.

Sorry but what you said could be also said about the other side.

AmigaOS has zero to do with Amiga Inc. It is a Hyperion product.

Amiga.inc own the IP.
Hyperion are making Aos4 under license  from Amiga.inc.
With out amiga.inc in the first place hyperion would not be making Aos4.

2) AmigaOne has zero to do with Amiga Inc. It is an Eyetech product.

Eyetech is useing the name AmigaOne under license from Amiga.inc.
With out Amiga.inc eyetech could not use the name amigaone.

None of these facts are debatable, so save your breath.

No such thing as non debatable.
Everything can be debated

Sorry but what you said could be also said about the other side.

Either you did not read what I said, you read between lines that weren't there, or you simply just refuse to "get it".

Amiga.inc own the IP.

Irrelevant.  

Hyperion are making Aos4 under license  from Amiga.inc.

Not quite.  You make it sound like Amiga Inc initiated the license.  They did not.  Hyperion did.

With out amiga.inc in the first place hyperion would not be making Aos4.

Now you're confusing fact with your own opinion.  Perhaps not Hyperion, but someone would have been writing it.

Eyetech is useing the name AmigaOne under license from Amiga.inc.

True.  

With out Amiga.inc eyetech could not use the name amigaone.

False.  

Question: since it is VERY apparent to everyone else, are you aware that everything you've said is simply based on the name, and Amiga Inc hasn't actually DONE ANY OF IT?

No such thing as non debatable.
Everything can be debated

Only by petulant trolls determined that theirs is the only opinion that matters in this situation.  If you had read my message without already being predetermined to respond with an argument, you'd have understood the fact that I was trying to say that all this arguing is stupid.  You however have proven yourself to be pre-disposed to responding, just to see how much you can drag out the same tired arguments.

Like I said, I don't care if you like my opinions or not, but the facts are facts.  Amiga Inc has done NOTHING except take money to put a name on someone else's product.  Hence my phrasing of "nothing to do with Amiga Inc".

While there's nothing wrong with that per se, it does not make either Hyperion's or Eyetech's product instantly superior to other alternatives (such as emulators, MorphOS, etc) in my book.  If you don't like that, again, not my problem.

[Ami603]

@Wayne:
   Quote:
"2) Hyperion does not have hundreds of Frieden-level developers."

Wrong.Since i am on the betatesters team and receive continuous feedback from OS4 Developers, i can say,for sure that this statement is plainly wrong.There are very professional developers involved on OS4 project,and also i can say openly that the whole team are working as the best one you can have for such a project.I think that they deserve our most intense applause.

[edit]Anyway,this whole comments are way Off Topic,so no more replies from me[/edit]

[downix]

You are claiming that they have hundreds of them, all up to the Frieden's level?  Even Ben Hermans said they had only a few dozen coders.

[IonDeluxe]

Hooligan_DCS wrote:

You are right, the Amiga-market is too small for lots of competition. On the other hand, when has consumer suffered from such competition? Usually it just makes things better. Cheaper products, better service etc.
But as we stand, there is no competition as only the other party has delivereved the goods. In a few months(my estimate, don't kill this will change as both companies have their solutions out by then, and can do some real competition.
The same goes for us users, we can start comparing the two computers and operation  systems based on daily usage and overall feeling. Not by numbers ran on Linux.

The competition I was mainly refering to is in the community...especially this AINC Morphos thing.People new to the community, and people who return to the community asfter a long time(such as myself) comeback to finding these flame wars, like this one.Another example is the amithlon.I tell you, alot of people who come back see this crap and just leave again, taking with them a very bad impression which spreads to other potentials who might have come back once they were made aware.I know I very nearly turned away until I realized it was the amiga I was about, not hotheads squabbling over who's solution is better.(Its pretty easy to put em in AMD\Intel Mac|windows or ATI\nVidia frames of referances and then can be thus ignored)
In this way "competition can kill"
With 2 platforms for the amiga, two operating systems it makes it less attractive for developers to come to Amiga as a whole as they have to port thier products between the two.Many wont come due to this single fact, which means less support for both.Without up-todate applications, and a steady release of applications the platform dies.Especially when both offerings are in competition with PC and Macs.Competition can kill here too.
On top of all this you have other competitors such as Aros, Amithlon XL and maybe even Ulminator(sp) amongst others, and thier grievances thrown into the mix.
This kind of competition can make the entire environment(with sh*t stirers from the PC mob)very unpleasant, and may even drive long time supporters of Amiga away.

This entire thread turned into a flame war with a few cheap shots taken by wayne.It is unclear or not if this was just in fun, which I would like to believe, or not, its gone too far.His most recent comments make it clear to me that he is a Morphos supporter, and steadfastly so with perhaps some ill feeling towards Ainc and thier offering.As such I certainly could not rely on him to give a fair assesment of both machines, all other considerations aside.
 If I cant do this, how can a newcomer do this?

Now, before anyone jumps in, the Amigone is produced by eyetech in an agreement\partnership with AINC. This makes it an AINC offering no matter how much or how little involvement they have in the project.Same with OS4.

As an administrator of a website myself and a supporter of AMIGA (not morphos, not Amiga Inc or any other faction) I have found it very difficult to find a community to direct my visitors to, as I firmly believe if I did it would cause more harm than good due to the flamewars etc.

Anyway, I hope you can see what I am trying to say here.I also hope that many others might see the dangers to the future of AMIGA and start thinking about more benificial ways to support thier faction and the AMIGA community as a whole.

[Alkemyst]

Not quite. You make it sound like Amiga Inc initiated the license. They did not. Hyperion did.

No i did not & the point is not who came to who first.

The point still is no matter who came up with the plan that there would be no Aos4 with out amiga.inc say so weather amiga.inc intend to continue with amigaOS or not.

Now you're confusing fact with your own opinion. Perhaps not Hyperion, but someone would have been writing it.

It does not matter how many other firms that could of been making it instead of Hyperion.
with out Amiga.inc's say so NO one can make Aos4.

 

[redrumloa]

Ami603 wrote:
@Wayne:
   Quote:
"2) Hyperion does not have hundreds of Frieden-level developers."

Wrong.Since i am on the betatesters team and receive continuous feedback from OS4 Developers, i can say,for sure that this statement is plainly wrong.There are very professional developers involved on OS4 project,and also i can say openly that the whole team are working as the best one you can have for such a project.I think that they deserve our most intense applause.

[edit]Anyway,this whole comments are way Off Topic,so no more replies from me[/edit]

No it is right. According to Hyperion themselves they have 30-some-odd developers. Even with a stretch of the imagination to say every one of Hyperion's external developers were to the level of the Frieden Bros, it does not add up to hundreds.

[JoannaK]

@Ami603
You maths are about as bad as AmigaIncs.. They claim they have 3000 DE developers..  :-D

Another possible solution would be to assume you makig an implication that Friendens are so *lousy* coders that all A1 betatesters are better coder than them. But I surely hope you didn't meant it that way...  :-o

[redrumloa]

It does not matter how many other firms that could of been making it instead of Hyperion.

I think you are missing the point, Wayne isn't arguing against that.

As I side note, am i the only person who remembers Bill Mc trying to offer the OS4 job to Coyote Flux?

Anyhow, Wayne's not insulting A1/OS4/Hyperion/Eyetech in his posts. So what's the problem? He is stating an opinion based on available information. I have more or less the same opinion. Unless you don't like the negative A-Inc vibes, but that is a given due to recent history.