Java

[Ohno]

Would you want to replace your linux-natively-written apps at work with apps under Java emulation though?

There are only a couple of good desktop applications, although more are coming, since JDK1.4 speeds up GUI a lot more and also has full-screen, hardware accelleration etc. So more games will start appearing as well.

But that's not where java is strongest. Think about Jakarte-tomcat, Ant and a lot of other server/developer-applications.

I am a professional java-developer and I would love to work on Amiga One.. I can't, because java is not available. I'm forced to use Windows and Linux instead.
I use java and java-written tools on a daily basis... One of the best client-applications with Swing-interface is the editor/IDE I use ... IntelliJ's IDEA. It is a resource hog, but it is also fast, responsive and is a very good overal IDE.

Oh.. and it could bring JaZilla (java version of Mozilla, currently in development) to Amiga as well.

regards,

Onno

[filson]

who here really needs a Java VM? (not a rhetorical question, I'm interested to know if anyone actually uses/needs it on a semi-regular basis)

an honest question. I do. My dayly livings are earned by programming Java. Some might say that all they need is C/C++, well... Maybe thats because thats all they know?!

Java is immencely powerfull for midsize to very large applications. C is also good but if you just need a small program then you should use Ruby and if you need a very large program you should use Java. C's only real benefit is its runtime speed. It is most certainly not fast for coding or debugging.

And for those small things like render loops or the like that needs very fast code, you can embed assembler or C or whatever you like in Java aswell.

So if Amiga ever dreams about entering the enterprices sectors and become more than a geek platform (sorry fellas  :-D ) then we need Java, and that sooner than later. Allans ideas about serverfarms of Amigas aren't realy going to happen without Java.

[gnarly]

mikeymike wrote:
who here really needs Java VM?

me waves frantically!

[filson]

And it would be nice to actually see a Java app that doesn't suck performancewise (well, more GUI responsiveness rather than 'performance', but they're kind of the same bag).

He he. Half of the performance hit is from translating the bytecode. This part is very much improved if you use Java 1.4.x and even more so if you use the -server flag. The client was made for applets and small apps that needed fast loads, so that was what they got. If you turn on -server you get all sorts of runtime optimizations like method inlining and a vastly improved garbage collector.
The server version can give you everything from slower speeds till a 100% boost depending on the code.

The other half is because people get class/thread happy and they don't use "final" (alows the runtime optimizations) stuff. They blow their code out the window that way. I do a lot of MySQL stuff and you don't get C code that beats Java in performance in that area.

Remember that the SUN version of Java for SPARC is much faster than the x86 version. Thats simply because it is possible to tweak your runtime to every single hardware feature your platform can support.

Don't judge Java on some annoying 1.1 applet you saw on Geocities.

Oh, and it would be mighty kewl to see "Powered by/Hosted on Amiga" on websites. That only takes the Apache Tomcat webserver and a Java runtime.
Plus, you get to fart in microsofts direction  :-D  :-D

[DaveP]

No Java is not desperately needed, its a nice to have. What
is needed is the tools that are required in the first place

* to compile and build JVM sources, and also to use with JNI
* to develop fast native applications, tools etc

That sayes C/C++. In order to have Java you must first have
something that compiles the VM sources, that is C & C++.

There is no point in getting to a Java is good/bad debate over it - look at the prereq tree for bringing it to the platform please.

[filson]

erhm... don't we already have a c/c++ compiler ?
if not how do they get the stuff done?

Javac is naturaly part of the JDK. but its 400KB of code compared to 100MB. Javah (jni) is even smaller ...

[DaveP]

We do have a C/C++ compiler, but I would say the environment is far from polished and Java is not exactly something that should be released with AOS4 ahead of a polished C/C++ IDE.

Javac is often written in a combo of Java  and JNI ( to invoke it! ). This allows you to compile java source code to bytecode.

Javah allows you to generate stub code from java classes for JNI. I can't remember what it is written in.

The Sun JVM is seperate from both of those things and the source tree is huge and is written in a combination of C and C++.

Java ( .exe ) which actually invokes the JVM is written in C last I saw it and basically does a JNI call to init the VM and pass it your classpath, arguments then it initialises the class you specifies, locates the main method and calls it.

[tonyw]

Kaffe is coming. Although it's not certified by Sun, it more or less obeys the Java description. It's open source, anyone can download the source and compile it (bring your lunch).

I've got it running on the Amiga 68k platform now, using the interpreter. I'm currently trying to find out why the JIT translator crashes - I'm going to slap myself when I finally find it.

All the changes I have made to the Amiga platform configuration have been put back into the source tree. I've also made a few changes to the m68k Linux platform (I've made a Linux partition on the Amiga and run Linux on it just to compare the Linux and Amiga versions of kaffe).

Once I get hold of an AmigaOne I'll start the PPC Linux version. By the time I get that working, AOS4 should be out and I can start again with the PPC Amiga version. I'll be busy here for a few years.

tony

[El_Duduarino]

#### nice one.  :-D

[MrZammler]

Would you want to replace your linux-natively-written apps at work with apps under Java emulation though?

My mainly used apps, *are* Java. Eclipse, Aqua Data Studio, jEdit, are some of those.

[mikeymike]

@ MrZammler

There's a first :-)

Ok, so far we've got one person who actually uses/needs Java on a semi-regular basis.  The rest of you think it's cool and/or would like to learn it.

Just putting things in perspective :-)

[filson]

@mikeymike

*lol* I use tomcat and eclipse everyday. Besides I program for a proprietary web engine (something like php/jsp) in Java. And I'm preparing releases for the demo scene in Java aswell.

does that count as using java ?  :-P

[Ohno]

There's a first

Ok, so far we've got one person who actually uses/needs Java on a semi-regular basis. The rest of you think it's cool and/or would like to learn it.

Hee..  you forgot me :-D .. I posted that I use Java on a daily basis as well.. I NEED java, that's how I make a living. And now I'm forced to use Windows or Linux (or Mac).

I want to work on Amiga One with OS4

regards,

Onno

[mikeymike]

@ Ohno

Yep, I did forget you and noticed you after my last post, but as you're only a mere Hobbyist you don't matter  :-D

[DaveP]

Ahem.

Not only have I been involved in porting Java I have been using
Java in the enterprise since around 98 as a professional.

I just don't happen to think it is essential.

[filson]

@DaveP

and we don't think you are essential  :-D  :-D  :-D
sorry. ;-)