PAL A1200 in the US?

[mr_a500]

Why not put in a hardware PAL/NTSC switch and forget the software. It's just a matter of wiring a SPDT switch to a pin of Agnus.

Using software to switch to PAL mode is not a problem. It works fine. The problem we were discussing was PAL screens being "cut off" at the top and bottom when viewed on an NTSC 1084. A hardware switch on Agnus would not help this.

[adolescent]

Doesn't your 1084 have enough adjustability to show the complete screen?  I never had a problem on my A500 + 1084S.

[beller]

drewz21 wrote:
AmigaKit.com is fast becoming my favorite Amiga store...period!  

The last order I placed with them, yesterday, I made sure they knew I ordered from them because of their presence on this board.

Thanks for the support of the Amiga, AmigaKit!

I agree!  I was also "shocked and amazed" to find NOS A1200s on a build-to-order.  Given all the interest I'm glad I ordered my NTSC yesterday!!  There can't be that many NOS out there, can there?

Looking forward to my new A1200!!  I can now say I've owned every classic Amiga! (heck, if I get a 1000, 2000, and 500 I think I'm covered now!)

Bob :-D

[mr_a500]

Doesn't your 1084 have enough adjustability to show the complete screen? I never had a problem on my A500 + 1084S.

That's a 1084S and I think those (and later 1084) have a V-Height knob on the front. Both of my 1084 monitors just have a screwdriver hole on the back and a very delicate knob deep inside for V-Height and they don't adjust very far. Even turned all the way, it wasn't enough - and I carefully tried turning a bit farther and the damn cheapo thing bent (and possibly screwed the monitor).

I wouldn't want to have to turn my monitor around, get the screwdriver and flashlight and carefully adjust it for a PAL game, then when finished, do the whole thing again to fix the aspect ratio for NTSC (otherwise screen looks squashed) every single time.

So I guess the moral of the story is: get a 1084S and make sure the V-Height knob is on the front!

[alenppc]

mr_a500 wrote:
Running PAL software on an NTSC Amiga with an NTSC 1084, the extreme top and bottom of the screen will be cut off. So for example, in Fire&Ice the score at the top can barely be seen and in Babeanoid the "bat" at the bottom of the screen can't be seen. This is only a problem in the few games and demos that put things on the extreme edges.

On some 1084 monitors, you can adjust the V-height and "squash" the screen so everything is seen.

This makes me wonder - is the PAL 1084 physically taller or is the screen just "squashed" to fit?

There is no problem using a PAL Amiga with an NTSC 1084-style monitor. The input is RGB so the picture will be fine you would just have to adjust the V-size controls and eventually V-sync which will make it look exactly like it would appear on a PAL 1084. The opposite is also true - if you have a PAL 1084 which you want to use with an NTSC amiga, you have to do the same but in reverse because by default a PAL 1084 monitor will centre the NTSC resolution picture leaving top and bottom black borders (like if for example you were watching a widescreen movie).

Even my old 1080 monitor (Jan 1986!) can be adjusted to view the full 625-line resolution.

As far as the PSU is concerned - there is no need to get a power converter. You can use any 110V PSU intended for use with an A500 or simply rewire any cheap PC/AT PSU, even a 100W would do perfectly fine... The only problem might be finding the square power connector.

[leirbag28]

@alenppc


No matter what you do to an NTSC 1084s, You will never see the whole PAL picture......specifically the extreme ones.


@mr_a500

WHDload is a whole different story as well as Babenoid.
But what About Techno SOund Turbo?  Protracker? Klondike? Fantastic Dreams/Elastic Dreams?   MASPlayer software and hundreds of other Apps hat only com in PAL?

Trust m NTSC4NTSC is the best I have seen so far.  it is instant unlike the hassle of Degrader in which you have to reboot.

it becoms even more usefull when using a TV with you Amiga.  and doing presentations as I do.

By the way I hav been usin ABCdir more and more.its becoming more usefull...........specifically when copying CD's on my CD32.......DMS2 causes my CD32 o crash every time!  and now finally I hae somethin that wont crash it!

I think it has to do with th fact  that DMS2 seems to be doin something to th CPU even when you are not using it...........Use SnoopDOS while DMS2 is open to see what I mean.  ABCDIR doesnt do that.

[mr_a500]

But what About Techno SOund Turbo? Protracker? Klondike? Fantastic Dreams/Elastic Dreams? MASPlayer software and hundreds of other Apps hat only com in PAL?

Trust m NTSC4NTSC is the best I have seen so far. it is instant unlike the hassle of Degrader in which you have to reboot.

Of those, I only use Protracker and there is an NTSC mode for that.

You don't have to reboot with Degrader. Typing "degrader 50hz 50hzsystem noeditop" will switch to PAL mode. With PAL programs, if ModePro can't change modes for me, I make a script file (run with iconx) where I switch to PAL and when the program is finished, switch back to NTSC.

So my script file for BabeAnoid is like this:

c:degrader 50hz 50hzsystem noeditop
BabeAnoid.exe
c:degrader 60hz 60hzsystem noeditop

I've also got two ABCdir buttons for running Degrader - one for PAL, one for NTSC so I can do fast switches.

[adolescent]

leirbag28 wrote:
@alenppc

No matter what you do to an NTSC 1084s, You will never see the whole PAL picture......specifically the extreme ones.

Give me an example and I'll try it out.  (I no longer have the A500 but can use my A600).

[Zac67]

All in all this is very simple. NTSC AGA machines differ from PAL ones in these ways:
PSU: 110V vs 220V: easily exchanged/adapted
Alice: the very same, just the JUMPER/solder bridge for pin 41 (_NTSC/PAL) differs
modulator: different part, must be exchanged if composite is needed. RGB doesn't care.
oscillator: differs slightly, but doesn't really matter (if you're not genlocking or using an A2024)

All RGB monitors I've ever seen (1081, various 1084, Philips, Profex, ...) can be adjusted (vertical sync & height) to either PAL or NTSC.

PS: _NTSC comes out of the U12 encoder and runs through Q201 (all between IDE and PCMCIA). Probably that's a different part, too, but my schematics are too bad to read...

PPS: no I have it I think: the _NTSC doesn't come from the encoder - that one just needs the inverted signal. So R203 (0 Ohms) decides whether NTSC (present) or PAL (missing). Can anyone with a PAL 1200 confirm that it's missing?

[TjLaZer]

If anyone can figure out a way to get Chaos Engine AGA to run in NTSC I will be stoked!  The game uses a NTSC sized screen but insists it use a PAL to run!  I don't get it.  Tried everything.  WHDLoad also does the same thing.

[adolescent]

TjLaZer wrote:
If anyone can figure out a way to get Chaos Engine AGA to run in NTSC I will be stoked!  The game uses a NTSC sized screen but insists it use a PAL to run!  I don't get it.  Tried everything.  WHDLoad also does the same thing.

Try JST version!

[Merc]

leirbag28 wrote:
No matter what you do to an NTSC 1084s, You will never see the whole PAL picture......specifically the extreme ones.

I had 3 different 1084S's as well as a 4th 1084S-P or whatever the "2nd generation" ones were, and all of them adapted to PAL mode by changing the refresh rate and I never had to adjust anything on the monitor to see the full screen.

This was with NTSC A500/A1200's, so maybe in the case of a PAL machine this may not be the case, but I don't see what the difference would be, the video signal remains the same AFAIK.

[alenppc]

I had 3 different 1084S's as well as a 4th 1084S-P or whatever the "2nd generation" ones were, and all of them adapted to PAL mode by changing the refresh rate and I never had to adjust anything on the monitor to see the full screen.

This was with NTSC A500/A1200's, so maybe in the case of a PAL machine this may not be the case, but I don't see what the difference would be, the video signal remains the same AFAIK.

No, there is no difference when using the RGB connection. I had a PAL 1084S and an NTSC 1080, and they don't sync automatically to a different screenmode but you have to adjust them manually... not a big deal really...

The only thing is, as you are probably aware, Commodore sold lots of different models, that is to say, models that were significantly different hardware-wise and even had different connectors on the back under the same model number, which means that you can never know which behaviour to expect from one until you try it... Even two 1084s which look perfectly identical from the outside might have different specs.

[leirbag28]

@dolescent

I will have to do some testing.


@Merc
I am not talking about just the refesh rate, I am talking about the screen size........the best way to understand what I mean is this:

Put your Amiga in NTSC 640 x 400 workbench........and adjust the screen so that you see a border about a centimeter around the 640 x 400 area.....now with some sort of erasable marker or pencil or whatever.......draw and trace the edges of the 640 x 400 area................now after doing that...........put your Workbench in PAL 640 x 512............notice the image is outside the Outline you just drew, though your monitor may be in 50Hz mode and you can probably adjust the sreen to see the Full PAL image...................................................................

But!  on My Magnavox (and probabaly the PHILIPS CMK monitors).....when I put it in PAL mode........it resizes the 640x512 to fit the exact outline of the 640x400 area the NTSC occupied  so that I dont have to adjust anything on my monitor!   I never seen a 1084 that does this although TJLazer says the Boxy one with the Blue commodore words does this.

This is the only TRUE time that Pal is actually Higher resolution.....on other RGB's is just more lines but not higher resolution.Higher resolution is More dots or pixels per inch.  But anyway this isnt a Higher res discussion.

in some cases some software has Overscan PAL or Extreme PAL that No NTSC Amiga Monitor can display.I will have to do research again to see which games or software they were.

I think Project X may be one......not sure

[mr_a500]

I already mentioned two games as example of being off the screen (and I don't know why nobody saw it):

So for example, in Fire&Ice the score at the top can barely be seen and in Babeanoid the "bat" at the bottom of the screen can't be seen.

When I say Fire&Ice score, I mean the word "Score", the bottom of which can be seen if you look up and behind the monitor casing. The actual score can be seen. On the 1084 I'm using now, you can't see the Babeanoid bat at all. On my last 1084 (the one I adjusted the V-Height with screwdriver), you could see the top of the bat if you looked from above down the inside of the monitor case.

[K7HTH]

Has anyone tried playing PAL games through an Eyetech external SD/FF on an NTSC monitor?