Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Author Topic: Intel Mac comes very poor second to PPC  (Read 22655 times)

Description:

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Waccoon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Apr 2002
  • Posts: 1057
    • Show only replies by Waccoon
Re: Intel Mac comes very poor second to PPC
« Reply #89 from previous page: March 09, 2006, 10:10:01 AM »
Quote
Uncharted:  I distinctly remember going into HMV and seeing that game that was the first to take advantage of MMX, that really crap racing game, can't remember it's name though. That must of been nearly 9 years ago. Man, i'm getting old

P.O.D., I believe.

Quote
Hyperspeed:  Could someone tell me what the hell makes a Mac?

The pretty packaging.  It really bugs me that iMacs still don't have any real expandability, but Apple is a hardware company, so of course they encourage people to throw their old machines to get brand new ones.  I was Amazed that Apple finally released a budget machine without a Mandatory Display Attached(TM).

Quote
Hyperspeed:  Someone enlighten me what makes OSX special and why everyone is ecstatic about iBooks...

I don't understand the iBook thing.  I've used plenty of good PC laptops, though they're usually all black.  iBooks do at least look better.

The thing I like about OSX is that it has a lot more tools built-in than a Windows machine.  Windows doesn't come with anything, really.  Of course, OSX weighs in at over 12GB, and sucks up a hell of a lot more memory than WindowsXP, which I didn't think was possible.

Quote
Tomas:  I dont think it does... Both BeOS and QNX came closer then...

QNX?  Absolutely.  I was so mad when QNX got turned down as the foundation of the new Amiga.

I didn't think BeOS was all that interesting, and I hated the toolbar and context menus.

Quote
Tomas:  As for OS X being a resource hog and bringing modern systems to a crawl, I'm yet to see my G4 Mac mini grind to a crawl, or my kids eMac, or hang on, how about the 6 year old G4 PowerMac at work. Nope, they all run very well.

My mini was a snail with 256MB of memory.  I put 1GB into it and it's a whole new computer.  Apple is famous for mis-matching hardware in ways that makes any experienced PC builder cringe.  Funny how they'd happily applaud the mini with the faster CPU, but still give you 256MB of memory.  Though the price is now rediculous thanks to the system's popularity, at least the new minis have more memory.

I wouldn't say OSX is responsive, though.  I still get the pinwheel cursor far too often and OSX has a nasty habit of thinking for a long time before putting a window or something on the screen.  Just because something bounces on the dock doesn't mean the OS is giving appropriate feedback as to what's going on.

My Win2000 system likes to think every now and then, but since I keep it clean of spam, it boots in 20 seconds and windows pop-up like lightning -- far faster than my mini...  and that's with Apache and MySQL in the background.

They're both good OSes.  I prefer OSX technology, but I think Windows still feels much better.  The OS doesn't try to put all my files into places where I don't want them.

Quote
Bloodline:  The File system is much better than FAT32... and bit better than NTFS, with a cool resource fork feature, based and around special directories called bundles. This feature allows drag and drop installation, as we are used to with AmigaOS.

Bundles rock.  I've been wanting that for Windows for years, although integrated ZIP files are about the only thing Microsoft seems interested in offering, and not very well, either.  I still prefer WinZIP.

Still, I do miss having the quickstart links like on my Windows machine.  On the dock, everything is the same size, and it's hard to tell applications from folders.  I tend to move files around a lot and the new Finder has its issues if you want lots of folders open at once.  Though different from Windows, OSX is still very much an application-centric system, rather than document-centric.  Apple's obsession with brand-awareness ensures that, unfortunately.
 

Offline bloodline

  • Master Sock Abuser
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 12113
    • Show only replies by bloodline
    • http://www.troubled-mind.com
Re: Intel Mac comes very poor second to PPC
« Reply #90 on: March 09, 2006, 10:22:08 AM »
Quote

Waccoon wrote:

Quote
Bloodline:  The File system is much better than FAT32... and bit better than NTFS, with a cool resource fork feature, based and around special directories called bundles. This feature allows drag and drop installation, as we are used to with AmigaOS.

Bundles rock.  I've been wanting that for Windows for years, although integrated ZIP files are about the only thing Microsoft seems interested in offering, and not very well, either.  I still prefer WinZIP.

Still, I do miss having the quickstart links like on my Windows machine.  On the dock, everything is the same size, and it's hard to tell applications from folders.  I tend to move files around a lot and the new Finder has its issues if you want lots of folders open at once.  Though different from Windows, OSX is still very much an application-centric system, rather than document-centric.  Apple's obsession with brand-awareness ensures that, unfortunately.


That's a good point! One thing I couldn't get to grips with when I first used  Windows98 (The first version of Windows I owned) was the document centric approach... I've since become very accustomed to it, by using Windows for the last 5 years.

Using MacOSX felt more comfortable to me (as a user who grew up with the Amiga) because of its application centric system... I hadn't realised that until you mentioned it!

As to which approach is better, I have no opinion (I'm used to both now)... But I think most people find document based to be more comfortable...

Offline Agafaster

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2002
  • Posts: 1175
    • Show only replies by Agafaster
Re: Intel Mac comes very poor second to PPC
« Reply #91 on: March 09, 2006, 10:30:52 AM »
Quote

mdma wrote:
Quote
"What makes an Amiga what it is?"


Commodore.

Hence no Amigas ever again since 1994.

I beleive Chuck D once said "Don't believe the hype".


B:-ollocks. I use OS4 most days, on an AmigaOne and it definitely feels like an Amiga to me. especially now I can drag down the (for example) Aweb screen, to check (for instance) a URL in an email on the YAM screen.

actually, your statement is doubly incorrect: Amiga was invented before Commodore got their grubby paws on it.
\\"New Bruce here will be teaching Machiavelli, Bentham, Locke, Hobbes, Sutcliffe, Bradman, Lindwall, Miller, Hassett and Benaud.\\"
\\"Those are all cricketers, Bruce !\\"
A1XE G3/800MHz Radeon 7000 512MB
A1200 030/25MHz 8MB
 

Offline bloodline

  • Master Sock Abuser
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 12113
    • Show only replies by bloodline
    • http://www.troubled-mind.com
Re: Intel Mac comes very poor second to PPC
« Reply #92 on: March 09, 2006, 11:20:35 AM »
Quote

blakespot wrote:
Quote

bloodline wrote:

The Price increase of the Mini is a bit hard to swallow... but it does have a better feature set than the G4 machine it replaces (more RAM, Bluetooth, Wi-Fi, Digital Audio, more USB...). for it to be really attractive to me, It would have to be under the £300 mark... then I'd be a Mac Mini owner :-)


The graphics are better too.  OpenGL is over twice as fast with the new (yes, integrated) Intel GMA950 vs. the previous G4 mini, running Xbench - a Universal (PPC / Intel native) application.  It supports Core Image, too, unlike the Radeon 9200-based mini chipset of yore.

blakespot


But the GMA950 doesn't have T&L, the ATI9200 does. So the GMA950 is more powerful (higher bandwidth, Shader Model 2.0, etc), and will handle eye candy better, but it won't perform so well in 3D games.

Offline uncharted

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 1520
    • Show only replies by uncharted
Re: Intel Mac comes very poor second to PPC
« Reply #93 on: March 09, 2006, 11:36:49 AM »
Quote

Tomas wrote:
OSX dosent even run smoothly on systems with 512meg ram...


Complete and utter unadulterated bollocks.

Typing this on an old eMac 700MHz G4 with only 256MB, and it's running absolutely fine with 6 apps open.  I'm not having any performance issues.
 

Offline bloodline

  • Master Sock Abuser
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 12113
    • Show only replies by bloodline
    • http://www.troubled-mind.com
Re: Intel Mac comes very poor second to PPC
« Reply #94 on: March 09, 2006, 12:15:06 PM »
Quote

uncharted wrote:
Quote

Tomas wrote:
OSX dosent even run smoothly on systems with 512meg ram...


Complete and utter unadulterated bollocks.

Typing this on an old eMac 700MHz G4 with only 256MB, and it's running absolutely fine with 6 apps open.  I'm not having any performance issues.


Good point, my PowerBook G4 ran fine on 512Mb, I certainly didn't notice any performacny difference when I upgraded to 1.2Gig (which was to allow me to do more in Logic 7).

Offline Agafaster

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2002
  • Posts: 1175
    • Show only replies by Agafaster
Re: Intel Mac comes very poor second to PPC
« Reply #95 on: March 09, 2006, 04:57:59 PM »
heres a (slightly OT !) question, peeps:

how does OSX run on MoL ?
if you've tried it, state OSX version, Linux version, and hardware setup.

obviously the closest to my setup the better !

(which is A1XE, 800MHz 750Fx, 512MB 133MHz RAM, debian, kernel 2.4.26, Radeon 7000 32MB.)

\\"New Bruce here will be teaching Machiavelli, Bentham, Locke, Hobbes, Sutcliffe, Bradman, Lindwall, Miller, Hassett and Benaud.\\"
\\"Those are all cricketers, Bruce !\\"
A1XE G3/800MHz Radeon 7000 512MB
A1200 030/25MHz 8MB
 

  • Guest
Re: Intel Mac comes very poor second to PPC
« Reply #96 on: March 09, 2006, 06:13:38 PM »
Quote
Bllocks. I use OS4 most days,


So do I.

I fail to see what that has to with with what or who make Amiga's.

Quote
on an AmigaOne and it definitely feels like an Amiga


Doesn't mean it is though, just coz it feels like one.  MorphOS and AROS feel like Amiga too, but all three are only Operating Systems, the OS does not define what an Amiga is.  

I can run NetBSD on my 1200, but it's still an Amiga.

The only companies to actually ever make Amiga's were Commodore and Escom.  No one has since.

Quote

 to me. especially now I can drag down the (for example) Aweb screen, to check (for instance) a URL in an email on the YAM screen.


Again, I fail to see the relevance of your statement.

Quote
actually, your statement is doubly incorrect: Amiga was invented before Commodore got their grubby paws on it.


Invented yes, manufactured no. :roll:
 

  • Guest
Re: Intel Mac comes very poor second to PPC
« Reply #97 on: March 09, 2006, 06:15:31 PM »
Quote
but it won't perform so well in 3D games.


Of which the Mac market is saturated with eh Matt? ;-)
 

Offline bloodline

  • Master Sock Abuser
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 12113
    • Show only replies by bloodline
    • http://www.troubled-mind.com
Re: Intel Mac comes very poor second to PPC
« Reply #98 on: March 09, 2006, 06:18:15 PM »
Quote

mdma wrote:
Quote
but it won't perform so well in 3D games.


Of which the Mac market is saturated with eh Matt? ;-)


:-P

Offline Agafaster

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Feb 2002
  • Posts: 1175
    • Show only replies by Agafaster
Re: Intel Mac comes very poor second to PPC
« Reply #99 on: March 09, 2006, 08:55:11 PM »
Strictly speaking, since the AmigaOne
has 'the name' its an Amiga - it does after all have the sanction (FWIW ;-)) of the
parent company - such as they are :-P

if it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck...

but I think its best (for the thread !!) that we should agree to differ! ;-)
\\"New Bruce here will be teaching Machiavelli, Bentham, Locke, Hobbes, Sutcliffe, Bradman, Lindwall, Miller, Hassett and Benaud.\\"
\\"Those are all cricketers, Bruce !\\"
A1XE G3/800MHz Radeon 7000 512MB
A1200 030/25MHz 8MB
 

  • Guest
Re: Intel Mac comes very poor second to PPC
« Reply #100 on: March 09, 2006, 09:08:10 PM »
Quote
if it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck...


.....then it's probably not a duck. ;-)
 

Offline uncharted

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 1520
    • Show only replies by uncharted
Re: Intel Mac comes very poor second to PPC
« Reply #101 on: March 09, 2006, 09:55:28 PM »
Quote

mdma wrote:
Quote
if it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck...


.....then it's probably not a duck. ;-)


I was going to say:-

Then don't stand near to it if you're on a hunting trip with the Vice President :lol:
 

Offline Hyperspeed

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Jun 2004
  • Posts: 1749
    • Show only replies by Hyperspeed
Re: Intel Mac comes very poor second to PPC
« Reply #102 on: March 10, 2006, 01:51:05 AM »
What do you mean by Application/Document based?

Okay, so MacOSX does sound interesting but if it eats more resources than WinXP then isn't this cheating?

... being more like Amiga by being more like Windows!?

I must admit that the statement about Mac programmers knowing what they were coding for is similar to Amiga. And I do like the way a Macintosh has a recognisable, quality case design.

It puzzles me though why in this day and age we use earplugs (on the iPod for example) but not eyeplugs.

Even the PSP takes the boring old approach of a tiny little screen you have to squint at. Why not design a headset for portables that would incorporate an i-Glasses style visual display and earphones. This would do away with the need for a massive 15"+ laptop LCD screen and it's associated fragility/battery hunger.

Someone got MacOSX screenshot links?

:-)
 

Offline bloodline

  • Master Sock Abuser
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Mar 2002
  • Posts: 12113
    • Show only replies by bloodline
    • http://www.troubled-mind.com
Re: Intel Mac comes very poor second to PPC
« Reply #103 on: March 10, 2006, 08:43:25 AM »
Quote

Hyperspeed wrote:
What do you mean by Application/Document based?


It relates to how one deals with data on the system. In a document centric system one doesn't really care about the application used to manipulate the data. You think of the Data as an entity in it's own right, which is essentially self contained. In an application centric, it's the application which you use and the data is sort of "hidden" from user view.

Quote

Okay, so MacOSX does sound interesting but if it eats more resources than WinXP then isn't this cheating?

... being more like Amiga by being more like Windows!?

I must admit that the statement about Mac programmers knowing what they were coding for is similar to Amiga. And I do like the way a Macintosh has a recognisable, quality case design.


Yes.

Quote

It puzzles me though why in this day and age we use earplugs (on the iPod for example) but not eyeplugs.



Try walking around the streets with wearing plugs... then try the same wearing a blindfold... Vision is your primary sense.

Quote


Someone got MacOSX screenshot links?

:-)


Apple's MacOS X page is a good place to start:

http://www.apple.com/macosx/

Offline Waccoon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Join Date: Apr 2002
  • Posts: 1057
    • Show only replies by Waccoon
Re: Intel Mac comes very poor second to PPC
« Reply #104 on: March 10, 2006, 11:00:20 AM »
Quote
Bloodline:  That's a good point! One thing I couldn't get to grips with when I first used Windows98 (The first version of Windows I owned) was the document centric approach... I've since become very accustomed to it, by using Windows for the last 5 years.

The hardest thing about going back to my 1200 is having to change Default Tools all the time when I download new software.  It's especially painful if something is a Tool instead of a Document, as double-clicking doesn't allow me to type in an app to use.  That annoyed the hell out of me even when I got my A1000.  The old Macs had the same problem, and Macs also wouldn't even ask what app you wanted to use to open the file.  Given that people insist on putting file extentions before the filenames (especially "mod"), this really shows how app-central the Amiga was in its day.  What's more important: the fact that the file is music, or that it's made in SoundTracker?  Many people still sort their music by filetype, than by genre.  What happens if you get a few OGG files?

I also hate tabbed browsing, for many of the same reasons.  I have a multimedia keyboard with keys mapped to Back/Forward/Close/Undo/Redo, and these keys make it ten times easier to control my browser than using the mouse to click tabs.  When a browser opens new tabs in the same window, I have a tendency to close the browser, and thus lose all my websites in one go, with no way to get them all back.  Of course, this also brings up the issue of persistence, which is really getting off topic.  :-)

It's a sticky situation, though, as power users tend to be app-centric, and normal people are document centric.  Which system does an OS support?  Finding a good balance is difficult.  Most OSes, including Windows, Amiga, and MacOS, don't really get it right, despite the patriotism expressed by each platforms' fans.

Quote
Agafaster:  actually, your statement is doubly incorrect: Amiga was invented before Commodore got their grubby paws on it.

Yeah, but OS2 was a hell of an improvement over OS1.x.  I'm shocked looking back on how I used my A1000, and that I actually managed to get anything done at all.  I was so mad when I found OS2 wouldn't run on my A1000, and I couldn't afford to get a 500 with a new ROM.  The 1200 was a brilliant upgrade in terms of usability, even though AGA was a huge disappointment.

Of course, to me, Workbench is the Amiga.  From a high-level view, not being a serious coder at the time, the Amiga's hardware features didn't really seem to set it far apart from other machines in terms of games (yes, really).  PC games were slower, less smooth, and sometimes uglier, but they played much the same way.  The desktop, on the other hand, was simply amazing.  MS-DOS and Win3.1 couldn't touch it.  That's why I want Amiga on x86 so bad, and want it based on practically any modern UNIX-like OS.  I just want a new Workbench.  That's my fondest memory.

But then, I want to be an interface designer.  So long as it handles vector graphics, hardware doesn't really involve me.  I care little about what's under the hood.

Quote
Uncharted:  Typing this on an old eMac 700MHz G4 with only 256MB, and it's running absolutely fine with 6 apps open. I'm not having any performance issues.

It's possible OSX scales back automatically for older Macs.  My mini was a performance slug before I put in more memory, even for simple things like e-mail.  I had to wait minutes for the OS9 version of Graphing Calculator to start!  I hear, though, that 10.4 is much, much more resource hungry than 10.3.  My mini came with 10.4.

The mini is also the first real Mac I've used since my OS8/G3 days, so I can't comment on older versions of OSX.  When I got it with the stock memory, though, the mini seemed a hell of a lot slower than OS8 on the old G3.  OSX can be a real memory hog at times.