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Author Topic: Intel Mac comes very poor second to PPC  (Read 22672 times)

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Offline minator

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Re: Intel Mac comes very poor second to PPC
« Reply #74 from previous page: March 08, 2006, 06:04:52 PM »
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Someone mentioned the development of mmx from intel. I heard almost 10 years ago, that Intel came up with some software-multimedia package/routines and moco$oft told them, that with that software there was no need for win95 (there was no need, I used OS/2 at the time) and they will not sell it, so they would not allow that software to happen, so the Intel people came up with this "mm-software" inside the processor.


Intel put a lot of effort into producing a DSP library, Microsoft managed to talk Intel into killing it.
 

Offline bloodline

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Re: Intel Mac comes very poor second to PPC
« Reply #75 on: March 08, 2006, 06:42:56 PM »
Ok, I've had a chance to play with a MacBook Pro!!!

It's really fast, really light, really hot, and the battery was happy to claim 4:02 hours with the bightness at minimum... 3:23 hours with the screen at full brightness. I didn't experience any problems with going to sleep and waking up... reboot took about 20 seconds (amazing!), I even did an "apple-v" boot and the console was just like the PPC version. The Screen did exhibit a strange pulse in brightness, which was noticeable, but not distracting... I have a feeling it was related to the ambient light sensor... But I would need to test it for longer to prove it. The audio seemed a little quiet on the side speakers...

The magsafe connector was brilliant, I wasn't expecting much, and it was really good, much better than I could ever have imagined.

The build quality was superior to my 12" PowerBook, but the keyboard felt less professional... though it has a better response... The shop floor was too noisy to hear how noisy the machine was :-( .

It's a Mac... it's fast, it's expensive. I have an odd ambivalence towards it... I want one :-)

-Edit- I don't know why, but the power button on the MacBook seems very slightly oversized... I guess I'm used to the 12" Powerbook :-?

Offline billt

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Re: Intel Mac comes very poor second to PPC
« Reply #76 on: March 08, 2006, 07:51:00 PM »
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The iBook is indeed a nice laptop, best I've ever owned. IMHO running OS4 on it would be a waste.


In what way would it be a waste? I'd like a convenient and usable portable platform for when I'm not home and have nothing better to do than work on OS4 stuff. Hauling my AmigaOne, monitor, keyboard, etc. isn't suitable for on the plane or sitting around at the airport or on a bus or whatever...
Bill T
All Glory to the Hypnotoad!
 

Offline blakespot

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Re: Intel Mac comes very poor second to PPC
« Reply #77 on: March 08, 2006, 08:55:37 PM »
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bloodline wrote:

The Price increase of the Mini is a bit hard to swallow... but it does have a better feature set than the G4 machine it replaces (more RAM, Bluetooth, Wi-Fi, Digital Audio, more USB...). for it to be really attractive to me, It would have to be under the £300 mark... then I'd be a Mac Mini owner :-)


The graphics are better too.  OpenGL is over twice as fast with the new (yes, integrated) Intel GMA950 vs. the previous G4 mini, running Xbench - a Universal (PPC / Intel native) application.  It supports Core Image, too, unlike the Radeon 9200-based mini chipset of yore.

More here:

http://www.maconintel.com/news.php?article=140




blakespot
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Offline Hyperspeed

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Re: Intel Mac comes very poor second to PPC
« Reply #78 on: March 09, 2006, 01:07:28 AM »
There's been a lot of questions lately such as "What makes an Amiga what it is?" and the answers have ranged from Workbench to the custom chips.

Since Apple Macintosh has been supported by Microsoft with Word etc. and Microsoft/Gates has shares in Apple... and Intel now make the CPUs...

Could someone tell me what the hell makes a Mac?

I've tried MacOS 7.5.5 on Shapeshifter and it seemed like AtariTOS. I imagine it being used with a 1-button mouse by an affected hairdresser.

Someone enlighten me what makes OSX special and why everyone is ecstatic about iBooks...
 

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Re: Intel Mac comes very poor second to PPC
« Reply #79 on: March 09, 2006, 01:11:25 AM »
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"What makes an Amiga what it is?"


Commodore.

Hence no Amigas ever again since 1994.

I beleive Chuck D once said "Don't believe the hype".
 

Offline adz

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Re: Intel Mac comes very poor second to PPC
« Reply #80 on: March 09, 2006, 01:29:40 AM »
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Hyperspeed wrote:

Someone enlighten me what makes OSX special and why everyone is ecstatic about iBooks...


Ever used OS X? And I don't mean clicking around the screen for 5 minutes at your local Apple dealer. Because IMHO, it's the closest to a modern Amiga you're ever going to get.
 

Offline Tomas

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Re: Intel Mac comes very poor second to PPC
« Reply #81 on: March 09, 2006, 02:21:28 AM »
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Ever used OS X? And I don't mean clicking around the screen for 5 minutes at your local Apple dealer. Because IMHO, it's the closest to a modern Amiga you're ever going to get.

I dont think it does... Both BeOS and QNX came closer then...

OSX is pretty damn resource hungry compared to AmigaOS and crawls even on current hardware.
 

Offline Hyperspeed

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Re: Intel Mac comes very poor second to PPC
« Reply #82 on: March 09, 2006, 02:44:41 AM »
Didn't they port Quark Express to PC?

I used to think that was a good reason to buy a Mac, like buying Lightwave was a good reason to buy an Amiga.

The world has gone so cross-platform it's hard to find anything distinct. And guess who makes money ALL the time...

Microsoft, Intel and IBM!

Who'd have thought it:

* Microsoft using IBM G5 for X-Box 360
* Apple using iNtel CPUs for new Macs

It would be nice to have a computer format made in Europe by Europeans so we not only support our own economies but cater for our own creative needs and don't have to lap up technology that panders to US visions of the future (internet enabled fridges and 'bigger and more is better!' philosophy).

We're making a start with the Galileo GPS system, maybe if we applied German precision and British inventiveness to the processor market it'd evolve in areas outside raw horsepower, legacy support and gimmicky features.
 

Offline adz

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Re: Intel Mac comes very poor second to PPC
« Reply #83 on: March 09, 2006, 03:03:39 AM »
Quote

Tomas wrote:

I dont think it does... Both BeOS and QNX came closer then...

OSX is pretty damn resource hungry compared to AmigaOS and crawls even on current hardware.


But niether of those have the same support base that MacOS has, as for the AmigaOS4 scenario, that has already been covered by Lando.

As for OS X being a resource hog and bringing modern systems to a crawl, I'm yet to see my G4 Mac mini grind to a crawl, or my kids eMac, or hang on, how about the 6 year old G4 PowerMac at work. Nope, they all run very well.
 

Offline Tomas

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Re: Intel Mac comes very poor second to PPC
« Reply #84 on: March 09, 2006, 03:07:27 AM »
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As for OS X being a resource hog and bringing modern systems to a crawl, I'm yet to see my G4 Mac mini grind to a crawl, or my kids eMac, or hang on, how about the 6 year old G4 PowerMac at work. Nope, they all run very well.

You must have upgraded these machines then?? OSX dosent even run smoothly on systems with 512meg ram...
 

Offline adz

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Re: Intel Mac comes very poor second to PPC
« Reply #85 on: March 09, 2006, 03:15:18 AM »
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Tomas wrote:

You must have upgraded these machines then?? OSX dosent even run smoothly on systems with 512meg ram...


Both the eMac and the mini have G4 1.42's, the mini has 1GB and the eMac has 512MB. The PowerMac has a G4 733 and 768MB RAM. I use the mini for photo manip and capturing video, the kids use the eMac for school work, internet and playing games, the PowerMac is used for video editing. All three are running OS 10.4 and I enjoy using them all. A friend is even using 10.4 on an old G3 iBook, now that is a tad slow, but the machine is even older than the PowerMac and is still quite usable. Food for thought.
 

Offline blakespot

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Re: Intel Mac comes very poor second to PPC
« Reply #86 on: March 09, 2006, 04:32:01 AM »
Quote

Tomas wrote:
Quote
Ever used OS X? And I don't mean clicking around the screen for 5 minutes at your local Apple dealer. Because IMHO, it's the closest to a modern Amiga you're ever going to get.

I dont think it does... Both BeOS and QNX came closer then...

OSX is pretty damn resource hungry compared to AmigaOS and crawls even on current hardware.


Crawls even on current hardware?  Come try it on my dual G5 2.5, MacBook Pro, or G5 Mac mini.  Extremely responsive.  




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Offline blakespot

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Re: Intel Mac comes very poor second to PPC
« Reply #87 on: March 09, 2006, 04:35:47 AM »
Indeed, I wondered what kind of dilemma the Mac mini would put people saving $$ for a near $1000 PPC "Amiga" board.  For $499 you could get a 1.25GHz G4 with OS X.  Quite a complete OS and decent hardware.  Did many jump to OS X?

The current Intel mini's are $100/$200 more, but offer 4x the CPU power, or so.  Still an interesting situation.




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Offline bloodline

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Re: Intel Mac comes very poor second to PPC
« Reply #88 on: March 09, 2006, 08:10:23 AM »
Quote

Hyperspeed wrote:
There's been a lot of questions lately such as "What makes an Amiga what it is?" and the answers have ranged from Workbench to the custom chips.

Since Apple Macintosh has been supported by Microsoft with Word etc. and Microsoft/Gates has shares in Apple... and Intel now make the CPUs...

Could someone tell me what the hell makes a Mac?


Inventive enclosure designs (I've not used a more robust laptop) and the best consumer grade Unix operating system available.

Quote

I've tried MacOS 7.5.5 on Shapeshifter and it seemed like AtariTOS. I imagine it being used with a 1-button mouse by an affected hairdresser.


I totally agree... MacOS pre OSX was worse than AtariTOS. I had to use MacOS9 on a ProTools system and from that moment I declared that I would never be a Mac owner. Then I got to try MacOS X (on PearPC) and started to fall in love with it!

Quote

Someone enlighten me what makes OSX special and why everyone is ecstatic about iBooks...


The one advantage that Windows has is the vast amount of comercial software support it has... It is that one thing that actually makes Windows "better" than all other OSes... As the second best comercially supported operating System, MacOS X takes second place... but MacOSX has things that Windows doesn't... like:

1) Total Hardware/Software integration, the OS designers know exactly what Hardware the OS is going to run on, and you can feel it... very similar to AmigaOS in that respect.
2) Proper user accounts, I can have separate accounts optimised and set up for different uses... these are totally secure and are essentially separate machines!
3) Not running the machine in Administrator mode, and requiring a password to access the system files keeps nasties out of the system.
4) The Audio subsystem has been logically thought out, to allow application independant effects and transparent distributed network audio, with very low latency... Windows audio sybsystem is a mess... Steinberg had to save the day with ASIO.
5) It has a title bar, with the menus at the top of the screen which I enjoy as I grew up with AmigaOS.
6) The File system is much better than FAT32... and bit better than NTFS, with a cool resource fork feature, based around special directories called bundles. This feature allows drag and drop installation, as we are used to with AmigaOS.

The list goes on...

Offline Waccoon

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Re: Intel Mac comes very poor second to PPC
« Reply #89 on: March 09, 2006, 10:10:01 AM »
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Uncharted:  I distinctly remember going into HMV and seeing that game that was the first to take advantage of MMX, that really crap racing game, can't remember it's name though. That must of been nearly 9 years ago. Man, i'm getting old

P.O.D., I believe.

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Hyperspeed:  Could someone tell me what the hell makes a Mac?

The pretty packaging.  It really bugs me that iMacs still don't have any real expandability, but Apple is a hardware company, so of course they encourage people to throw their old machines to get brand new ones.  I was Amazed that Apple finally released a budget machine without a Mandatory Display Attached(TM).

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Hyperspeed:  Someone enlighten me what makes OSX special and why everyone is ecstatic about iBooks...

I don't understand the iBook thing.  I've used plenty of good PC laptops, though they're usually all black.  iBooks do at least look better.

The thing I like about OSX is that it has a lot more tools built-in than a Windows machine.  Windows doesn't come with anything, really.  Of course, OSX weighs in at over 12GB, and sucks up a hell of a lot more memory than WindowsXP, which I didn't think was possible.

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Tomas:  I dont think it does... Both BeOS and QNX came closer then...

QNX?  Absolutely.  I was so mad when QNX got turned down as the foundation of the new Amiga.

I didn't think BeOS was all that interesting, and I hated the toolbar and context menus.

Quote
Tomas:  As for OS X being a resource hog and bringing modern systems to a crawl, I'm yet to see my G4 Mac mini grind to a crawl, or my kids eMac, or hang on, how about the 6 year old G4 PowerMac at work. Nope, they all run very well.

My mini was a snail with 256MB of memory.  I put 1GB into it and it's a whole new computer.  Apple is famous for mis-matching hardware in ways that makes any experienced PC builder cringe.  Funny how they'd happily applaud the mini with the faster CPU, but still give you 256MB of memory.  Though the price is now rediculous thanks to the system's popularity, at least the new minis have more memory.

I wouldn't say OSX is responsive, though.  I still get the pinwheel cursor far too often and OSX has a nasty habit of thinking for a long time before putting a window or something on the screen.  Just because something bounces on the dock doesn't mean the OS is giving appropriate feedback as to what's going on.

My Win2000 system likes to think every now and then, but since I keep it clean of spam, it boots in 20 seconds and windows pop-up like lightning -- far faster than my mini...  and that's with Apache and MySQL in the background.

They're both good OSes.  I prefer OSX technology, but I think Windows still feels much better.  The OS doesn't try to put all my files into places where I don't want them.

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Bloodline:  The File system is much better than FAT32... and bit better than NTFS, with a cool resource fork feature, based and around special directories called bundles. This feature allows drag and drop installation, as we are used to with AmigaOS.

Bundles rock.  I've been wanting that for Windows for years, although integrated ZIP files are about the only thing Microsoft seems interested in offering, and not very well, either.  I still prefer WinZIP.

Still, I do miss having the quickstart links like on my Windows machine.  On the dock, everything is the same size, and it's hard to tell applications from folders.  I tend to move files around a lot and the new Finder has its issues if you want lots of folders open at once.  Though different from Windows, OSX is still very much an application-centric system, rather than document-centric.  Apple's obsession with brand-awareness ensures that, unfortunately.