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Author Topic: Open Pegasos fail to deliver!  (Read 3602 times)

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Offline c64_d0cTopic starter

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Open Pegasos fail to deliver!
« on: January 10, 2006, 02:46:21 PM »
Yep the 9th Came and went. Not a word or public notice, The open Pegasos have been hyped since November 25th, you'd have think they had something to release by now.

So having a WEEE bit of problems? Life not so RoHSy anymore?

Would it be that they just discovered that the platform does not live up to the RoHS & WEEE Directives... got a big no from power.org... are at the moment trying to see if their other boards live up to the RoHS & WEEE Directives...


Open Pegasos = The next big vaporware?
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« Last Edit: May 08, 2011, 05:55:49 AM by c64_d0c »
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Re: Open Pegasos fail to deliver!
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2006, 03:12:21 PM »
Why do we (in general, as a community) do this?  Haven't we figured out yet that "deadlines" are just a suggestion where anything Amiga is concerned?  

I will allow this thread to continue as it needs to be discussed and is a valid subject, but understand that it's really borderline on trolling.  Not so much what it says, but the way it says it.  

Wayne
 

Offline Floid

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Re: Open Pegasos fail to deliver!
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2006, 03:37:38 PM »
Quote

c64_d0c wrote:

So having a WEEE bit of problems? Life not so RoHSy anymore?


How would those laws forestall the release of *plans?*

Frankly, this and the whole OpenSolaris shindig look like a way for Genesi to do something 'real' (and maaaybe, dare I say it, potentially 'good?') while staying out of the Name partners' hair.  It might be a kick to Eyetech when they're down, but so's every piece of hardware produced in the past 5 years.
 

Offline cecilia

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Re: Open Pegasos fail to deliver!
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2006, 03:47:37 PM »
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Yep the 9th Came and went.
i didn't notice. frankly i had more important things on my mind
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Offline billt

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Re: Open Pegasos fail to deliver!
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2006, 04:03:17 PM »
What would RoHS have to do with it? I haven't even heard of WEEE, but for the moment I'll assume it's comparable to RoHS.

Yesterday's release schedule wouldn't have broken any upcoming environmental regulations yesterday, today, tomorrow, or for  a few months. There's some degree of possibility that the BOM has already been updated to meet RoHS requirements, if not it might be done by whatever 3rd parties are interested in the design.

And there's also plenty of people who would like to have a look-see just to learn how such a design comes together, get ideas, inspiration, etc. for their own product ideas which may have little if any resemblance to the Peg2. RoHS has no ability to stop the sharing of ideas or data files. You could still _design_ non-compliant devices, you just couldn't sell any real-world implementations of them.

With the length of time previous to the announced release you'd think they could have everything ready to go and just have to edit a web link somewhere to make the files "live" accessible on the web site, but maybe some automated script to do that failed, maybe they got lazy or caught up with something else unexpectedly, or maybe it is a big conspiracy and they're laughing all the way to their secret tropical evil-genius hideout.
Bill T
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Offline Tigger

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Re: Open Pegasos fail to deliver!
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2006, 06:04:22 PM »
Quote

billt wrote:
What would RoHS have to do with it? I haven't even heard of WEEE, but for the moment I'll assume it's comparable to RoHS.



Actually I think it probably does have something to do with it, though not in the way they think,  I'm guessing that after the huge (and silly) RoHS comments on AWN, by people that a week before that didnt even know what it was, that Bill & company figured out what the changes that were necessary (if any) and they are being incorporated and will be released in that matter.  Then the RoHS champions who didnt know what it was two weeks ago won't have that complaint and they will have to shift to another silly reason to wait months for new hardware rather then go with currently shipping hardware that is faster and cheaper.
      -Tig

PS Bill, WEEE stands for Waste Electrical and Electronic Equipment, its a measure to promote reuse and recycling of electronics, this is about Amiga equipment, so since Ebay is the dump site where all Amigas go when they leave there original owners, it doesnt really apply to us  :).
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Offline itix

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Re: Open Pegasos fail to deliver!
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2006, 06:41:03 PM »
I still dont understand what is so special in Open Pegasos. I got an invitation mail to power.org when I can barely design a blinking led system with pspice.
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Offline Tigger

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Re: Open Pegasos fail to deliver!
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2006, 09:50:23 PM »
Quote

itix wrote:
I still dont understand what is so special in Open Pegasos. I got an invitation mail to power.org when I can barely design a blinking led system with pspice.


Its a fully functional Pegasos II board, schematics and all thats available to be manufactured by anyone for free.  Instead of designing a new piece of hardware, prototyping it, etc, and trying to get it right, here is a fully functional board ready to be ordered.  Its a neat idea, it should be a new home for OS4.
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Offline Plaz

Re: Open Pegasos fail to deliver!
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2006, 09:56:48 PM »
Yeah, promise dates are made to be missed. I'm willing to let almost any thing slide a bit (except supper time). If we're still waiting on the 15th, then I'll really be wondering what was up.

Plaz
 

Offline Colin_Camper

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Re: Open Pegasos fail to deliver!
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2006, 10:03:29 PM »
Patience!

It's almost here.



I do a lot of hanging out in the red camp - but even I think that attacking bbrv for being a few hours late is a bit pathetic!  :-)

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Offline billt

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Re: Open Pegasos fail to deliver!
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2006, 10:58:37 PM »
Quote
I still dont understand what is so special in Open Pegasos. I got an invitation mail to power.org when I can barely design a blinking led system with pspice.


There's nothing fundamentally exciting about Peg2. It's a MicroATX srandard computer moetherbard with a PowerPC instead of an x86. It's production quality instead of evaluation/development quality, if that means anything. At least it seems to cost less than eval/development implementations direct from Freescale or northbridge vendors, Momentum, etc. I saw an 8548 dev board going for around US$5000 as well somewhere, can't remember who it was from though.

The open/free aspect, hopefully coming soon, is somewhat interesting. You can get comparable reference designs from other vendors for free (beer) but those sometimes come with NDAs, so aren't truely free (dom/open) even if you can use the design yourself, you can't pass anything on to others outside the NDA. If you believe bbrv's statements, you can share the Peg2 with just about anyone, at least that's how their expressions of openness and freedom have spoken to me. If the stuff every actually is released, I may stand corrected on this though.

Another interesting aspect of Peg2 is that it has a PCI to AGP bridge in thre somewhere. I'm curious to see what degree of freedom the design of this thing sees. You're not going to see an AGP slot in other PowerPC ref designs other than from MAI.

Some reference designs are only schematics, no layout data. There's plenty of good stuff to learn from schematics, but seeing how things are implemented in a production layout can be quite educational as well. bbrv says you or I or anyone could take the stuff directly to jsut about any PCB fabricator and have the thing built to a functional Peg2 computer. It's not that quick with just a schematic. (And it's not exactly that simple if you go to a new PCB fab other than DCE, as a new fab may have different tolerances and such that need testing and proving compatibiility before going into real production)

I think a lot of us would have fun looking at the design and seeing what it looks like to do that kind of thing. Some of us may learn something new.

But I don't see it as something to go wild and crazy over. PCI is old. AGP is old. I'd like to buy something with newer features than those. I've got a neato Asus PC motherboard on its way with PCI-Express, dual-graphics card support, SATA2, all the new stuff. It's only DDR though, not DDR2. PowerPC with more of this stuff onboard would start to get exciting, for me anyway.

As for the email invitation, remember that they're trying to build support and community aroudn the PowerPC ISA. I'm nto really sure what to make of that statement myself, as many of us already are PowerPC fans regardless of this Peg2 design going open or not. We're already there... But they're trying to get anyone and everyone excited about it, and involved in some capacity they are capable of. It may be your problem to figure out how you fit into everything though, but bbrv does seem to enjoy having Genesi/Pegasos fans to spread the word and all that if nothing more. Just think of it, you could be a cog in the grassroots marketing machine! Or you might have a vague platform idea that bplan can benefit from, thus Genesi and power.org penefit from it, even if you can't bring it to implementation reality yourself. I don't plan to be so generous with my own vague ideas. :p

Bill T
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Offline Tigger

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Re: Open Pegasos fail to deliver!
« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2006, 11:38:32 PM »
Quote

...I think many people in the PC world could learn a thing or two from Eyetech's hardware engineers.


Congrats, thats the funniest thing on this site in a long damn time.  
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Offline billt

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Re: Open Pegasos fail to deliver!
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2006, 01:41:24 AM »
Quote
Quote
   ...I think many people in the PC world could learn a thing or two from Eyetech's hardware engineers.

Congrats, thats the funniest thing on this site in a long damn time.


You may joke, but it's still true. For those that only wish to mock the AmigaOne's issues, there's still a lesson to be learned there.

If you think Eyetech's insistence to continue with Articia after DMA issues showed themselves, which caused problems in their primary LinuxPPC market (and no mainstream kernel support), instead of investigating other options, if you think all this was the wrong thing to do, then encourage other designers to be more open-minded to design changes, potentially large and involved ones, if comparable issues affect their design process.

If you can't learn from the situation you laugh about, then you are even sillier than you accuse Eyetech of.
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Offline Tigger

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Re: Open Pegasos fail to deliver!
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2006, 04:21:32 AM »
Quote

billt wrote:

You may joke, but it's still true. For those that only wish to mock the AmigaOne's issues, there's still a lesson to be learned there.

For others perhaps, not me.  Us, Rockwell, the Barbie folks etc, all were saying the part had problems.  Also understand that basically the people in question here don't exist, there are no Eyetech hardware engineers, its like saying I should learn something from the Easter Bunny, he doesnt exist so he can't teach me anything.

Quote

if you think all this was the wrong thing to do, then encourage other designers to be more open-minded to design changes, potentially large and involved ones, if comparable issues affect their design process.

Every other vendor using the part abandoned it.  I'm not sure why you think anyone else has to learn anything here.  YDL folks gave up on the board, Rockwell, etc all gave up on the parts, what this situation shows us is how dumb Alan and the Belgian Midget are to continue forward with piss poor hardware digging there situation in deeper and deeper until we are where we are now, no hardware to run the OS that was super portable according to those trying to sell it.  

Quote

If you can't learn from the situation you laugh about, then you are even sillier than you accuse Eyetech of.

What should I learn Bill??   We found the DMA issue in Articia before either of the gang was talking about it, it goes back to good engineering practices, translated to Hyperionese, that would be something like "shut the belgian midget up".   We abandoned the part, and went on, as did others.   The only company that stuck with Articia was Eyetech, because they were using MAI's boards and basically had no other option.  They had already failed to design there own board, then the board they picked had problems (and now can't be made anymore), and they refuse to do business with either of the companies actually producing boards in any kind of quantity.  
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Offline dylansmrjo

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Re: Open Pegasos fail to deliver!
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2006, 09:28:37 AM »
Quote

Tigger wrote:

Its a neat idea, it should be a new home for OS4.
     -Tig


I agree with you on that one. Would solve the "no hardware available" problem just fine.
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