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Author Topic: Dave Haynie (lead engineer of C= Amiga) opinion on Amiga Successors  (Read 42697 times)

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Offline bloodline

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Re: Dave Haynie (lead engineer of C= Amiga) opinion on Amiga Successors
« Reply #14 on: January 10, 2006, 02:20:26 PM »
Quote

motorollin wrote:
I can see Dave's point, that in order to attack the market and really be successful Amiga need to appeal to existing Windows and Linux users, i.e. those who are using an x86 platform. This means porting AmigaOS or a clone to an x86 platform. But I fear that would compromise the speed and stability that Amiga Classic/AmigaOne/MorphOS users enjoy.

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moto


But you've missed Dave's more important point... Why bother using cheap industry standard parts (ie PCI), as the A1 and Peg do... but not use a nice cheap CPU as well?

I agree that MacOS X has a huge advantage over Windows just because the engineers know exactly what hardware it runs on and can test it completly.

But AmigaOS going X86 doesn't mean you can't do that... if drivers are only written for specific hardware components... then you can force the users of the OS to stick with certain harware... unless they choose to write their own drivers.

Offline motorollin

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Re: Dave Haynie (lead engineer of C= Amiga) opinion on Amiga Successors
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2006, 02:21:01 PM »
Quote
CHR_ZD wrote:
Dave opinion is Windows is not unstable anymore

I disagree.

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moto
Code: [Select]
10  IT\'S THE FINAL COUNTDOWN
20  FOR C = 1 TO 2
30     DA-NA-NAAAA-NAAAA DA-NA-NA-NA-NAAAA
40     DA-NA-NAAAA-NAAAA DA-NA-NA-NA-NA-NA-NAAAAA
50  NEXT C
60  NA-NA-NAAAA
70  NA-NA NA-NA-NA-NA-NAAAA NAAA-NAAAAAAAAAAA
80  GOTO 10
 

Offline Kronos

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Re: Dave Haynie (lead engineer of C= Amiga) opinion on Amiga Successors
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2006, 02:38:51 PM »
Quote

lempkee wrote:

and btw to all thoose in here who belive in x86 and so on.... commodore (and amiga) died because of their x86 waste of money (and time) production runs just to try and make money...it didnt go very well ofcourse as we know ;)




Close, but no cigar.....

C= died because they tried to run their x86 leg the same way as Amiga.

No support, shaddy quality, medicore peformance and the same HW for years (a slighter case of the same mistake was also what killed Escom). If C= had played their (x86)cards well they could have been on par with HP,Dell and others.
1. Make an announcment.
2. Wait a while.
3. Check if it can actually be done.
4. Wait for someone else to do it.
5. Start working on it while giving out hillarious progress-reports.
6. Deny that you have ever announced it
7. Blame someone else
 

Offline Legerdemain

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Re: Dave Haynie (lead engineer of C= Amiga) opinion on Amiga Successors
« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2006, 03:25:27 PM »
Quote
Well I agree somewhat with both sides of this argument. But I do not believe x86 is the way forward for Amiga as the hardware is too diverse. And in my personal experience, diversity of hardware with a common OS is a Bad Thing.


Hardware such as what? Considering that most of the cards used together with either the Pegasos or the AmigaOne is old PCI cards which in time will become harder and harder to get hold of (and more expensive)... I can't see anything but the motherboard in itself being the hardware obstacle to overcome if either OS would be ported to x86 (and how often is the motherboard in itself an issue on the PC-side, really?). Besides the motherboards, the hardware is JUST as diverse no matter if you're running on a PPC motherboard or a x86 motherboard.

I really seldom comment on the AmigaOne / Pegasos discussion, but the hardware diversity problem you stated above, is something I really can't understand. Could you please clarify?
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Offline motorollin

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Re: Dave Haynie (lead engineer of C= Amiga) opinion on Amiga Successors
« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2006, 03:36:08 PM »
Quote
Legerdemain wrote:
Quote
Well I agree somewhat with both sides of this argument. But I do not believe x86 is the way forward for Amiga as the hardware is too diverse. And in my personal experience, diversity of hardware with a common OS is a Bad Thing.


Hardware such as what?
...
I really seldom comment on the AmigaOne / Pegasos discussion, but the hardware diversity problem you stated above, is something I really can't understand. Could you please clarify?

Motherboard chipsets, graphics cards, sound cards, PCI buses, just for a start. I have seen so many (x86) machines come back to me when I had to build them from cheap components requested by the customer, which had obscure chipsets I had never heard of. Windows had to use generic drivers, and my guess is that these drivers make guesses about the hardware in order to maintain compatibility. Needless to say the machines were unstable.

The machines that were built with well known boards with widely used chipsets were rock solid.

--
moto
Code: [Select]
10  IT\'S THE FINAL COUNTDOWN
20  FOR C = 1 TO 2
30     DA-NA-NAAAA-NAAAA DA-NA-NA-NA-NAAAA
40     DA-NA-NAAAA-NAAAA DA-NA-NA-NA-NA-NA-NAAAAA
50  NEXT C
60  NA-NA-NAAAA
70  NA-NA NA-NA-NA-NA-NAAAA NAAA-NAAAAAAAAAAA
80  GOTO 10
 

Offline bloodline

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Re: Dave Haynie (lead engineer of C= Amiga) opinion on Amiga Successors
« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2006, 04:15:47 PM »
Quote

motorollin wrote:

The machines that were built with well known boards with widely used chipsets were rock solid.

--
moto


Exactly, so only support specific boards and you will be fine...

Offline giZmo350

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Re: Dave Haynie (lead engineer of C= Amiga) opinion on Amiga Successors
« Reply #20 on: January 10, 2006, 04:18:41 PM »
It's about the money, dummies! Put vanilla AmigaOS on x86, and it will cost $299.00 + Genuine AmigaOS. MS Windows = $299.00 + Genuine Windows. The reason MAC went to x86 is the built in security in the new Intel chip. MAC/OS will be $299.00 + Genuine MAC. There's no getting around the new breed of OS. Amiga is way too far behind on this simple philosophy - SECURITY). To be competitive, the industry says "you must sell at $299.00. But Amiga, plus an attractor (something special - but with all the industry standard stuff), could make money. Price point to buyer. AmigaOS could sell cheaper than MS or MAC; a lot cheaper on x86 if they wanted to. But they would also need to make money. They would, by providing an OS at a reasonable price with APPS and games. That's what made Amiga so great in the first place. Industry support. Especially in the game arena. They need to allow for 3rd party support at a good price point. Or, even free... like OpenOffice.

Now, what Dave is saying is x86 hardware is dirt cheap. No custom hardware. Does it do what you want? YUP! It's about the money!

Now, IMHO, "Genuine" anything (when I say Genuine I mean - "you are NOT going to use it with out paying") is going to kill off the average consumer if SOMEONE doesn't come up with a way to deliver the OS and the APPS at a reasonable price. That's what Linux is all about. It's about the money! Amiga, or anyone for that fact, has an opportunity to, RIGHT NOW, fill the market with what Linux is trying to do; take the market away from MS and MAC. Linux will NEVER do that. But someone could if they just would come up with a great OS at a great price, with APPS!

Someone could make a killing in the market just by stopping the price creep and give it to the masses with app support! A lot of software developers would come back too. 3rd party developers don't care about any particular OS. They want to sell their wares, period. MAC tried, but had the stupid idea that they had to make their OS "SPECIAL". That failed! They are now on the MONEY bandwagon. OS/X was a great leap for MAC. Then they jumped ship on IBM. They got a business plan!

Dave is saying - "do the same thing!" Seriously, AmigaOS needs to be ported to x86!   FAST!  Intel has already done the hard part for any OS developer - "built in security!"

Let Intel worry about Security! They want to sell chips! If the industry can't use Intel with the existing MS and MAC OS's, MS and MAC would bail too! But, Intel got their sh*t together and is now perfectly poised for the next 5 years!  That's why MAC bailed on IBM! It's about the money!

Amiga has a great opportunity here...  they just can't see it. Jump on x86. There's plenty of room in the market for another "commercially supported OS". It would take right off, I gaurantee it. Especially true "Amiga" flavored (not a MAC clone). Oh, and "MARKET" it!  :-o  That's what used to make all the old magazines great. I go right to sleep whenever I read PC magazine anymore.

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Offline motorollin

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Re: Dave Haynie (lead engineer of C= Amiga) opinion on Amiga Successors
« Reply #21 on: January 10, 2006, 04:20:46 PM »
Quote
bloodline wrote:
Quote
motorollin wrote:
The machines that were built with well known boards with widely used chipsets were rock solid.

Exactly, so only support specific boards and you will be fine...

Isn't that exactly what they have done, with the A1/Peg? That is what I was getting at when I talked about Amiga/Apple being stable because they restrict the hardware their OS will run on.

--
moto
Code: [Select]
10  IT\'S THE FINAL COUNTDOWN
20  FOR C = 1 TO 2
30     DA-NA-NAAAA-NAAAA DA-NA-NA-NA-NAAAA
40     DA-NA-NAAAA-NAAAA DA-NA-NA-NA-NA-NA-NAAAAA
50  NEXT C
60  NA-NA-NAAAA
70  NA-NA NA-NA-NA-NA-NAAAA NAAA-NAAAAAAAAAAA
80  GOTO 10
 

Offline bloodline

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Re: Dave Haynie (lead engineer of C= Amiga) opinion on Amiga Successors
« Reply #22 on: January 10, 2006, 04:24:52 PM »
Quote

motorollin wrote:
Quote
bloodline wrote:
Quote
motorollin wrote:
The machines that were built with well known boards with widely used chipsets were rock solid.

Exactly, so only support specific boards and you will be fine...

Isn't that exactly what they have done, with the A1/Peg? That is what I was getting at when I talked about Amiga/Apple being stable because they restrict the hardware their OS will run on.

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moto


Specific as in "nForce4", for example... ie cheap and reliable.

-Edit- Exactly what apple are doing. Now they are using totally off-the-shelf harware, they can cut costs and increase performance!

Offline Nitro

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Re: Dave Haynie (lead engineer of C= Amiga) opinion on Amiga Successors
« Reply #23 on: January 10, 2006, 04:39:11 PM »
Sad really can`t agree with him. My G-3/600MHZ Pegasos2 running Mplayer on MorphOS, plays Divx video, that my Athlon 1GHZ WinXP locks up and can`t handle.  Cheaper is not always better.  Apple makes the switch to jump on the money train.      Eating their own words that the PPC is better.  Sony doesn`t seem to want to switch.  They seem to produce tons of PPC machines that sell less than $150.  One word "CELL"  
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Offline CHR_ZDTopic starter

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Re: Dave Haynie (lead engineer of C= Amiga) opinion on Amiga Successors
« Reply #24 on: January 10, 2006, 04:51:30 PM »
Even a PIII at 500Mhz can handle Divx videos without problems. If your 1GHZ Athlon fails it means you need to reinstall the codecs.
 

Offline Nitro

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Re: Dave Haynie (lead engineer of C= Amiga) opinion on Amiga Successors
« Reply #25 on: January 10, 2006, 04:59:44 PM »
@CHR_ZD
Divx made with Vidomi is more the problem.  My point being that a person doesn`t have to a big blouted OS and a ton of ram to have a good system.  Windows 2020 will probally take up  
9 GB to install.
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Offline lempkee

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Re: Dave Haynie (lead engineer of C= Amiga) opinion on Amiga Successors
« Reply #26 on: January 10, 2006, 04:59:44 PM »
chd:

maybe he should just reinstall windows and maybe buy better hw because its old crap anyway?

nitro:

only 9GB ?? i think you meant 9TB. :-)
Whats up with all the hate!
 

Offline bloodline

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Re: Dave Haynie (lead engineer of C= Amiga) opinion on Amiga Successors
« Reply #27 on: January 10, 2006, 05:00:56 PM »
Quote

Nitro wrote:
Sad really can`t agree with him. My G-3/600MHZ Pegasos2 running Mplayer on MorphOS, plays Divx video, that my Athlon 1GHZ WinXP locks up and can`t handle.  Cheaper is not always better.  Apple makes the switch to jump on the money train.      Eating their own words that the PPC is better.  


Steve Jobs wanted to move the Mac to x86 as soon as he was rehired by Apple... it was only IBM promises that kept him with the PPC... IBM failed and gave up with the desktop PPC.

Quote

Sony doesn`t seem to want to switch.  


Sony don't make PPC desktops.

Quote

They seem to produce tons of PPC machines that sell less than $150.  One word "CELL"  


Sony haven't made a PPC machine yet, and the PS3 is in a horrible state at the moment... they had nothing to show at the CES!

Offline Nitro

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Re: Dave Haynie (lead engineer of C= Amiga) opinion on Amiga Successors
« Reply #28 on: January 10, 2006, 05:01:44 PM »
Off topic the big book of amiga hardware is back online hooray!!
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Offline CHR_ZDTopic starter

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Re: Dave Haynie (lead engineer of C= Amiga) opinion on Amiga Successors
« Reply #29 from previous page: January 10, 2006, 05:07:42 PM »
So what? 9 GB? Modern hard disks have hundreds of gigabytes for very low prices. Desktop systems with 200GB Hard Disks 512/1024MB of ram and fast 3d cards like Nvidia or ATI are priced under 500$