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Author Topic: Looking for a new home :-)  (Read 12360 times)

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Offline jahc

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Re: Looking for a new home :-)
« Reply #44 from previous page: December 08, 2005, 06:25:30 AM »
@AmigaOneProductions

I moved to aw.net because I was excited about AmigaOne stuff, and it seemed like that sort of stuff was getting bashed (badly) or ignored in other places. I've got my AmigaOneXE now running OS4, and I love it. I've really enjoyed my time at aw.net over the last few years. :) But OS4 only discussion is starting to bore me. :) I'm starting to read amiga.org a little more, and I've discovered how much I miss the classics discussion. Not only that, but theres a greater variety of people posting here, its not always the same people like on aw.net. Not to mention the classic hardware knowledge here seems unbeatable.

I was under the impression that all amiga-like systems couldnt co exist on one portal, but you guys are showing me otherwise. :)

Now I gotta reupload my scary avatar that was removed a while ago for some reason. :P

Btw.. it would be nice if amiga.org could go to greater lengths to make it more usable with amiga browsers. Thats one thing thats great about aw.net, they go to extremes to make it compatible with our antiquated browsers. But I do realise a large portion of users (maybe even the majority) are browsing on PC's now. :)

I'm not giving up aw.net btw, just browsing both now. :) ann.lu still leaves a sour taste in the mouth. They just want to argue there. :/ (generalisation.. sorry)
 

Offline uncharted

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Re: Looking for a new home :-)
« Reply #45 on: December 08, 2005, 07:56:47 AM »
Quote

jahc wrote:
uncharted! good gubbins, you're still around?? :) is married life too hectic for you to continue our little reaction IRC client? :)


I've only come back into the scene recently.  I just don't think I could keep up with you rock n roll programmer lifestyle, what with all those award cerimonies and interviews (and possibly hot chicks beating at your door, I don't think Mrs Unch would appreciate that):lol:

I'm too swamped with Uni work to even look at a computer for any other reason.  Funnily enough, one of my assignments is writing a chat system, got a strange sense of deja vu ;-)
 

Offline nicomen

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Re: Looking for a new home :-)
« Reply #46 on: December 08, 2005, 08:09:28 AM »
Just my 2 cents on the issue:

I frequent lots of forums myself but I don't have the time to read every post. I have enjoyed AW.net for a long time, although I agreed that moderation was a bit tight in the beginning. I must admit I didn't see what this particular issue was, but from the name of the thread in question and its rising comment numbers, I knew that it was safe to stay away (long before it was closed).

I totally accept people complaining about moderation, both lack of, or too much. I normally tend to pester mods off-site myself if I feel some decisions are way out of line.

Controversive topics and posts will always arise on a website with a forum, specially when the forum is "on display" and people wanting to provoke gets instant attention of all its users.

One of the "problems" in our community is that we are so few and it makes it much easier to get attention even if you are just making nonsense or deliberately creating trouble.

Being a good moderator on an Amiga site is therefore very hard, and it takes ages to get the hang of it, if you ever. There are thousand of methods to handle discussions so that the majority of users get a site that is worthwhile.

Sometimes a site has decided to have a strict policy with strict rules, sometimes a site doesn't have any rules, other times people with special backgrounds are automatically interpreted to be "trolling", sometimes people with special backgrounds are allowed to circumvent rules.

Website owners has every right to handle moderation on their site the way they see fit. Users of that site are getting a privilege to post there. But on the other hand, let's not forget web site owners also has the privilege of getting users visiting the site.

No matter how one decides to handle or not handle user input on a website, there will always be someone that disagrees. And if you disagree the best thing is to notify its owners with a construtive and polite message about what you find is unfair or incorrect. If that leads nowehere, ignore the threads you know might be unconstructive, or just "vote with your buck" and don't visit the site.

I'm not sure this "I'm a victim!", "Goodbye everybody!" or "The end of the world is nigh!" posts are any point though. A website owner will eventually notice if users don't like his webite, and other users are perfectly able to make up their own opinions.

On the other hand, it's probably an effective way to, again, get attention and inform others of what you feel is unfair. No offense here Paul, I've just seen too many "That's it I'm leaving!" posts on most Amiga sites, and some weeks later it turns out the person is back ;)

I think we can agree though that Amigans are emotional people, we care in vast amounts and some times we might get hurt, "go mental", get very annoyed or just sad, out of stuff that outsiders might consider as a bagatelle.

Amiga.org was once a really active site and at some point it all accumulated into huge rowes and explosive threads. People back then "voted with their buck" and started to visit other forums, or started their own. This way Amiga.org  now seems to have few "camp fights". Although camp fights in general are getting less and less on all forums.

Ann.lu resorted to user logins to get rid of the huge amounts of fights, but unfortunately the process of getting a user is too slow (I'm still waiting after some months), and the activity there seems to be very low.

Moobunny has always been totally open and is normally the scene for the most extreme fights, it's also kind of a sanctuary when one wants to criticize other sites, or people without any censorhip.

Amigaworld.net was made to concentrate and house users that favoured one of the Amiga branches and has been a helpful site in that regards.

The same goes for sites like MorphOS-News, MorphZone and AROS-Exec.

Unfortunately it MIGHT seem like AW.net was "too successfull", as with the huge amounts of people joining, it also has brung the trouble makers since it's the site where you get the most attention when osting.

With strict moderation from the start, it quickly gained a bad reputation by the victims of it. Even the loosening up of moderation during the years didn't help to get rid of the reputation.

I think some of the moderators also has been affected by the constant criticism on other sites and has gotten defensive and finally reached a point where every feedback feels like yet another stab. Hence some of them resort too quickly to get rid of any arising problems by putting people or threads away, rather than maybe see if other means can be used, although this is normally the exception and not the rule.

I believe the moderators and site owners of various sites constantly re-evaluate their policies and practice, and I'm sure if it turns out AW.net loses users becaue of its policies, the policies might change.

On the other hand they might also prefer to keep it like it is and accept losses in favour of stability and firm control. That's fine too as there are plenty of alternatives for the ones that disagree and people should accept what owners of sites prefer.

I don't want to start a discussion on what is right or wrong, just tried to summarize a bit, and suggest that it's not the end of the world if a site you frequent does stuff you don't like. Just chill and vote with your buck ;)
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Offline lempkee

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Re: Looking for a new home :-)
« Reply #47 on: December 08, 2005, 08:17:24 AM »
nicomen: good post.

Whats up with all the hate!
 

Offline nicomen

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Re: Looking for a new home :-)
« Reply #48 on: December 08, 2005, 08:21:11 AM »
In hindsight I would say:

nicomen: long post.

 :crazy:
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Offline uncharted

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Re: Looking for a new home :-)
« Reply #49 on: December 08, 2005, 08:24:28 AM »
I'd say there was at least £1.77 worth in that one :-)
 

Offline amigaoneproductionsTopic starter

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Re: Looking for a new home :-)
« Reply #50 on: December 08, 2005, 08:32:12 AM »
@nicomen
Thats quite a good observation of the situation,  I had a choice and I took it.

Things may change in the future and I may want to return,  but changes are not going to happen quickly,  so I don't expect to be going back any time soon.

Moderation is a difficult job,  I do not dispute that,  but to ban any posts that even begin to question the Status Quo, or worse ban users who comment on something that they do not agree with is plain wrong IMHO.  If someone starts posting with bad language or insulting people then of course I would have expected to see a mod or a ban,  but for having a different opinion ?

Nobody can get it right all the time but not to accept constructive critisism will not help you improve things.

Quote
Just chill and vote with your buck ;)


I am perfectly chilled, and that's exactly what I did :-)

Edit: Spelling
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Offline uncharted

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Re: Looking for a new home :-)
« Reply #51 on: December 08, 2005, 08:44:33 AM »
Just one thing...

Quote

nicomen wrote:

I'm not sure this "I'm a victim!", "Goodbye everybody!" or "The end of the world is nigh!" posts are any point though. A website owner will eventually notice if users don't like his webite, and other users are perfectly able to make up their own opinions.

On the other hand, it's probably an effective way to, again, get attention and inform others of what you feel is unfair. No offense here Paul, I've just seen too many "That's it I'm leaving!" posts on most Amiga sites, and some weeks later it turns out the person is back ;)


Leaving AW and the Amiga Scene when I did was the best thing I have done (as far as Amiga stuff goes).  I was wasting far too much time arguing with people with closed minds, and getting wound up by people's behaviour.  In all honesty I just wasn't really enjoying it.

So why am I back here now?  Simple, I'm enjoying my Amiga hobby again (not that I get much chance with all the work I've got on).  It took a break from the forums to achieve that.

Do I have anything against AW? Nope, in fact I thanked DavayD for my stay when I requested my account be deleted.

Would I ever go back?  Nope.  While I read it and get some good info from there, the discussions there don't interest me anymore. My focus now is on my hobby, not in thrashing it out with people.
 

Offline lopos

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Re: Looking for a new home :-)
« Reply #52 on: December 08, 2005, 10:27:20 AM »
@nicomen
I agree with you completely.
 

Offline Agafaster

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Re: Looking for a new home :-)
« Reply #53 on: December 08, 2005, 11:32:17 AM »
I'm here cos work dont let me look at AW - the url is barred as being a chat site ! ;-)

I used to come here a lot, but stopped when that horrible Red/Blue thing got too much.

I still like AW and havent ever had a problem with mods - the thing is to think and read through before you hit that 'Post' button as with everywhere.

I feel I shall be lurking here no more, and just praying my work firewall doesnt bar this URL !

(I'll still pop into AW when I dial in at home though...)
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Offline bloodline

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Re: Looking for a new home :-)
« Reply #54 on: December 08, 2005, 08:20:06 PM »
A.org is a great site, because it's actually two sites in one!! First you have the Amiga Forum which is a haven of unbelieveable technical knowledge, and tolerant of all Amiga Fans (like AROS par example :-D).

Then you have the Coffee House, where amiga users can chill out and entertain each other. It has it's own culture and is great fun once you get into it ;-)

Offline Elektro

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Re: Looking for a new home :-)
« Reply #55 on: December 09, 2005, 01:24:05 AM »
besides...

#amiga.org kicks some serious behind!

 :-P
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Offline AmiGR

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Re: Looking for a new home :-)
« Reply #56 on: December 09, 2005, 02:08:46 AM »
I absolutely disagree with what happened there but I also disagree with something else:
- A MOS user breaks a rule and gets suspended and no one cares. (The way it should be, really).
- Some other certain people break a rule and get suspended and suddently it's all oh-so insanely unfair...

Partial sight.
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Offline T_Bone

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Re: Looking for a new home :-)
« Reply #57 on: December 09, 2005, 02:15:11 AM »
Quote

amigaoneproductions wrote:
@Thread

Thanks to all for the welcome,  some of you already know a little of what went on over at AW.net,  it was the "Moderators are GOD and woe betide anyone who questions" attitude that was the final straw.  I had had enough of people being treated like children instead of the the adults that we are.  


I missed the whole thing, spent a few days putting up lights, and by the time I logged back on, there's not much to see.
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Offline Herewegoagain

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Re: Looking for a new home :-)
« Reply #58 on: December 09, 2005, 02:47:47 AM »
Quote

Piru wrote:
Welcome aop, I'm sure you'll feel right home around here.

BTW, I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw this gem from a awnet mod:
Quote
And a word of warning for anyone posting additional startup threads to complain about the moderation will get a posting suspension. Follow the ajudication process if you feel slighted, but it absolutely is not up for discussion in the forums. Period.

Kind of speaks for itself.


Why?  From the AW.net Terms :

Quote
Ajudication: Whilst AmigaWorld.net moderation tries to be fair and balanced sometimes errors can occur. If you disagree with a specific instance where you have been moderated then please put your complaint to the Webmaster, an Administrator or another moderator for consideration and possible action. Arguments about specific moderation incidents are not tolerated on the public forum, use the adjudication process open to you.


And since you have selectively quoted me out of context, here is the post in it's entirety.  

http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=16362&forum=7&start=40&viewmode=flat&order=0#239430

@AmiGR

That's the whole point, certain people were making such a big deal about MOS users coming there and daring to speak on an OS4 site, and I made the point that they were not the only ones breaking site rules (and in fact, they didn't start the trolling, it was the "red group" who did).  What is good for one is good for the other.  Sorry, but fair is fair.  Some people got their panties all twisted over it.  I'm sorry, but I'm tired of seeing others be stomped on just like the OS4 users use to be, just because of their platform choice.



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Offline Plaz

Re: Looking for a new home :-)
« Reply #59 on: December 09, 2005, 02:52:39 AM »
@nicomen

Wow all these years and I don't think we've ever crossed threads before. Thanks for the help on that cross compiler some months back.

You difinitly have keen insight to fourm politics too.
I've been on amiga.org so long I can't remember when I started. My 2002 join date is just the last time the site was attacked and rebuilt. Wayne when did you set up amiga.org originally?

@thread

Any way I've seen the tide rise and fall so many times on AO, AW, ANN, and Moobunny I hardly notice any more. Passions do run high some times and it's sad when attacks get personal and some choose to leave. Redrumloa comes to mind. Typically I've agreed when moderators step in, but I don't normally agree when I've seen entire threads deleted for the sake of a couple of over reacting posters. I think its a good idea to lock an out-of-control thread some times, but deleting it entirely seems extream to me. But then I don't have the job of a moderator.

Things have calmed down lately across most of the normal sites, but there is always going to be some nim-rods who enjoy gettting a rise out of the "good net citezens".

Plaz