IDE - usb through a Spider - a good alternative to powerflyer?

[Boot_WB]

@platon42

Thanks for the info re: a4000 dma.  Don't think I'll bother making the switch to a4000 then.  Too much cost, and memory/accelerator on a1200 is easier & cheaper than the a4000 equivalent.

Think I'll just get a powerflyer (which also seems to run at a LOT less than the16MB/s Elbox quotes :-) - the review quoted on the elbox website shows transfers of around 5MB/s, and if that's their PR review then you can bet normal transfer rates are slower) or blizzard scsi until the magical mysterious Shark pops out of the clouds into reality :lol:  .

[Karlos]

tjaoz wrote:

The $200000 - $9FFFFF area is not used by A1200 motherboard at all. So what speed turbo card accesses this area depends on the hardware design of the turbo card only.

All accesses from the turbo card to this area are directed only to the external hardware (like Zorro II, Zorro IV or Mediators) connected to the CPU slot. If external hardware acknowledges cycles immediately (the case of the Mediator WAIT jumper opened), there is obvious that the speed at which this hardware is accessed is limited by the turbo card interface hardware only.  :-D

So things like glue logic on the card, phsyical connections etc simply cease to exist eh?

[tjaoz]

@Piru

> First of all, I am not 'Qwe'. I thought it was quite obvious,
> I am Harry Sintonen or 'Piru', not 'Qwe'.

Yes, I understand. You are 'Piru'. 'Qwe' is not you.
So, who is 'Qwe"? Your keyboard? :lol:

> I don't see such instructions or source code. I see some speculation
> what could be the reason for the protection to exist in the first
> place (1st paragraph of the 'History' section).

So if cracking instructions for Poseidon stack would be given in the form of speculations, would it be ok? :-?

> So the turbo card magically gets brain wave access to the area,
> without any need to send signals via wires or such silly stuff?

Are you really ignorant or do you only pretend to be so? :-o

> Newsflash: There are certain timing requirements for accelerators using
> the CPU slot interface, and if you break them the accelerator will not work.

:roflmao:
What requirements for accessing the $200000 - $9FFFFF area?
Could you be more specific?

[tjaoz]

@platon42

>>> Mediator4000 can't do DMA transfers to the motherboard.
>> You are wrong.
> Then proove it.

What for?

I know that Mr E3B has been trying to repair the Prometheus design for many months, as the original Prometheus does not have working PCI-to-PCI, and does not have DMA to Amiga motherboard at all.

Sorry, but I do not intend to help him. He should learn himself.  :-P

[mboehmer_e3b]

I know that Mr E3B has been trying to repair the Prometheus design for many months, as the original Prometheus does not have working PCI-to-PCI, and does not have DMA to Amiga motherboard at all.

Hey, you are da man, you must be ingenious to find out... it was pronounced on several new pages.
But your information is outdated, as PCI-PCI DMA is running for months now on my Prometheus...

About direct PCI-to-Zorro III DMA conversion... well. I know it is not worth the time to explain to you, but if you were familiar with Buster design, you should know that it is not possible due to timeout constraints on both the PCI bus and the Buster side.

Michael

[MskoDestny]

mboehmer_e3b wrote:
But your information is outdated, as PCI-PCI DMA is running for months now on my Prometheus...

Out of curiousity, is there any timeframe for when ordinary users will be able to send their boards in for reflashing?

About direct PCI-to-Zorro III DMA conversion... well. I know it is not worth the time to explain to you, but if you were familiar with Buster design, you should know that it is not possible due to timeout constraints on both the PCI bus and the Buster side.

Does this mean that PCI busmaster devices cannot access motherboard resources?

I don't know much about PCI and Zorro III timing so feel free to dismiss this outright, but couldn't Zorro III DMA be implemented with a series of individual PCI accesses since PCI is much faster than Z3. It seems a single PCI read or write operating takes around 5 cycles or so (or can it be longer depending on the device?). Can the buster chip not wait this long for each data transfer?

[tjaoz]

@mboehmer_e3b

> Hey, you are da man, you must be ingenious to find out... it
> was pronounced on several new pages.

What was pronounced on several news pages? That the original Prometheus does not have working PCI-to-PCI, and does not have DMA to Amiga motherboard at all?

When I wrote about these facts on Amiga.org there were always some "eyewitnesses" saying that PCI-to-PCI works well in their Prometheus boards. :lol:

> But your information is outdated, as PCI-PCI DMA is running for
> months now on my Prometheus...

I suggest you read my post again, and this time try to read it with understanding. I clearly wrote about the 'original' Prometheus, not about your experimental toy. Whether it works or not. :-D

> About direct PCI-to-Zorro III DMA conversion... well. I know it is not worth
> the time to explain to you, but if you were familiar with Buster design, you
> should know that it is not possible due to timeout constraints on both the
> PCI bus and the Buster side.

Many designs have been completed for Amiga, which others believed to be impossible.
 
You'd better wrote that making DMA to Amiga motherboard is too complicated for you. It's obviously not as easy as fix the PCI-to-PCI DMA in Prometheus. :lol:

[tjaoz]

@MskoDestny

> Out of curiousity, is there any timeframe for when ordinary
> users will be able to send their boards in for reflashing?

You can send your Prometheus board for reflashing since January 2002. :roflmao:
See details here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Amiga-Prometheus/message/1065

Forgive me, but I couldn't resist.  :roll:

[jj]

I have a powerflyer and trust me i wish i had never sold my blizzard scsi kit(didnt want to spend money on scsi kit at the time).  blizzard scsi kit is true dma access. the powerflyer, whilst you get goodish transfer speeds, just watch your cpu usage hit 100% whilst transfering files.

[x56h34]

Hi tjaoz. Welcome back.
Yes, we all know how this discussion ends.
Let's see, Cocolino mouse adapter, Elbox PCMCIA Right angle adapter, PowerFlyer, 4xEIDE'99, Mediator Multimedia CD, yes, all Elbox products have direct DMA to Amiga motherboard and it's absolutely pointless arguing that any other product is equal in performance in  any way. Old news, move along. Next!

[Karlos]

@tjaoz

I am curious. You seem determined that motherboard DMA is working for mediator4000. Could you provide us with a list of which products compatible with the mediator4000 use DMA to access the motherboard resources and some known examples where the feature gives a clear performance advantage over other solutions?

Presumably, DMA'ing to the motherboard memory is only useful for systems that have it. How does the feature help on systems that have local memory on accelerator cards?

Even if PCI -> motherboard memory DMA works, if you have an accelerator card in your system, the chances are you will end up having to use the CPU to shunt data between the local memory and the motherboard area accessible to the PCI.

[platon42]

@tjaoz:
>>>> Mediator4000 can't do DMA transfers to the motherboard.
>>> You are wrong.
>> Then prove it.
>What for?

Because otherwise, I suggest you STFU. The fact is, you cannot prove it. Remember, things like that could cause a war. Or was it you that claimed there were Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq?

And for the rest of the phrases: Smoke screen going off-topic. As usually. If you don't have any point to make, try jumping at something completely different. Pathetic.

[mboehmer_e3b]

Out of curiousity, is there any timeframe for when ordinary users will be able to send their boards in for reflashing?

We are running tests now with some external testers, and are evaluating the handling of the boards (shipment etc).

Please give us some time... it's far better to have it tested into the deep than giving away a fix which does not keep it promises (like the last reflash from the original designer :-(

Michael

[mboehmer_e3b]

...there were always some "eyewitnesses" saying that PCI-to-PCI works well in their Prometheus boards.

Yes, and always some people have seen a working Shark or Dragon... har har har... but seriously. The last DMA fix from Matay did work between PCI slots, but could be interfered from Zorro accesses, locking up the PCI bus.

You'd better wrote that making DMA to Amiga motherboard is too complicated for you.  

Your struggling against reality given by existing bus and chip specifications is admirable.

Michael

[MskoDestny]

mboehmer_e3b wrote:
We are running tests now with some external testers, and are evaluating the handling of the boards (shipment etc).

Please give us some time... it's far better to have it tested into the deep than giving away a fix which does not keep it promises (like the last reflash from the original designer :-(

Michael

I understand your desire to be absolutely sure given the costs involved with shipping boards all over the place. I also understand your reluctance to give a date since one problem could potentially push back the date significantly. I was just wondering if you could give some kind of educated guess. If you don't want to, I understand.